Oral History with Matthew Alvarez

Govinda, Interviewer:

Today is the 8th of August. The year is 2020. We're still in the pandemic. My name is Govinda Wagner. I am talking with, if you will say your full name, please?

Matt:

Matthew Jacob Andrew Alvarez.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Thank you. What was your date of birth?

Matt:

I was born on May 28th, 1998.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay. Where were you born?

Matt:

I believe I was born on a military base in Virginia. I think the name has 00:01:00changed a couple times, but I believe it went by St. Petersburg.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, cool. So, how-

Matt:

Or the city was St. Petersburg.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, yeah. I was in St. Pete, Florida for a while, too, so I know what that's like. My dad was also in the military. So, what branch of military was your family in?

Matt:

I don't remember, to be honest. I haven't talked to him in a couple years, so-

Govinda, Interviewer:

That's fair, and that's a thing that happens to queer people sometimes. Would you tell me what letter of the LGBTQ do you identify with? How do you identify?

Matt:

So, sexually and I guess romantically, I identify as pansexual and pan romantic. Right? I think that sexualities and genders change over time. So, I'm currently 00:02:00reevaluating where that pan romantic, et cetera falls, because I think there might have something to do with demi. Or maybe not including demi, but I'm not sure. And then gender-wise, I just use queer, just because it's a little bit up in the air. I don't really care to go to dwell into it myself, personally. I'm just like, whatever gender I am, it's none of my business, because it doesn't affect my life.

Govinda, Interviewer:

I hear you. All right, very cool. Thank you for sharing that with me. Is there a name that you prefer to go by, that you want to go by, instead of your full name?

Matt:

You can call me Matt or Matthew for now. I plan on changing my name at a later date, but I do not have a name picked out.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay. What's the motive for changing your name, if you don't mind sharing?

Matt:

My name comes from my family, obviously.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Matt:

And there are some uses of my name that I didn't really approve of, and I've 00:03:00basically grown up through an abusive household, and been aware of that result, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Govinda, Interviewer:

I hear you there, and I'm sorry to hear about that. So, if there's anything that maybe is a touchy subject, or something that you don't want to discuss today, you can always say pass, and we'll move on to another subject. Stuff like that.

Matt:

No, I promise I'll answer every single question honestly and apathetic... I mean empathetically.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Empathetically. Well, thank you. I know we really appreciate that. So, if your family was in the military, I'm guessing that you did not come... Or did you come to western North Carolina by choice?

Matt:

I did not.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay.

Matt:

But not because of the military.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay. How did you end up here?

Matt:

So, I am the first person in my family to get to go to a four year university, 00:04:00and part of that was immigration from my third year of my family. Part of it was... Not to be rude, but none of them really attempted hard enough to the point where they could have applied. Some of my family members dropped out of high school. So, when I got the chance to apply to college, where I was applying to wasn't my choice. The choice was given to people above me, who would be like my mother, my stepfather and their friends, and I was basically been given the choice of this school, of Western North Carolina, or no school, and to live vicariously through them.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, so they kind of mandated that you come out here?

Matt:

Yeah.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay. Where is your family? Where did you move here from?

Matt:

That's a bit tricky of a question to ask. We spent, from what I remember, half 00:05:00my life in Washington State, around Olympia, and then the other half around then North Carolina, in Lenoir.

Govinda, Interviewer:

In Lenoir. Okay, so there was some kind of connection back and forth with North Carolina? Okay. Why? Did they give any reasons about why you had to go to Western?

Matt:

My mother had a friend named Mo, or she went by Mo, and she had a husband who'd always wanted to go to Western. It was just like, for lack of a better word, everyone that they knew wanted to go, therefore I should go, because I got to do what they wanted to do.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh. Well.

Matt:

Well, also it was [crosstalk], too. That was another-

Govinda, Interviewer:

That's a good factor. I know that's good. All right. So, you're currently living near Western. Are you in Sylva, or-

Matt:

I am currently in Cullowhee.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Cullowhee, okay. And what is it that you're studying at Western?

Matt:

I am currently not studying anything at Western. I'm taking a break.

Govinda, Interviewer:

That's fair. What was it that your family wanted you to go there for?

Matt:

They wanted me to go there for engineering.

Govinda, Interviewer:

What did you go there for?

Matt:

I don't know. I've realized that I went to college not prepared with a plan, because it wasn't my plan to begin with. So, I kind of went to college for engineering, and then quickly was like, "Yeah, this isn't me." Then I tried sociology, and I knew more than the professors, and they were less lenient to understand the queer experience. So that didn't work out, and then school just didn't work out.

Govinda, Interviewer:

I'm sorry to hear that. But hey, at least you started exploring your own 00:07:00interests there. I know that's pretty empowering, when you start to get that stuff together. Can you tell me a little bit about when you came out?

Matt:

I think I was 16, and I only came out to one person at that time. But what had happened was there was an individual that I was attracted to in school, and I had realized at a very, very young age, like single digit age, that I was different. Not only the, "Woo-woo, I'm edgy," different, but the term just came to me. At that point I identified as bi. I was like, "Oh, I'm not gay. I'm bisexual." And when people would ask me, I'd be like, "Yeah, I just don't care about you, so I don't know why you need to know that about me, but maybe mind 00:08:00your own business." I was very rude. Still kind of am.

Matt:

But at that point I was interested in someone that also happened to have the same gender... Sorry... sex as me, and I came out to my mother, saying like, "Do you think love is universal?" And she was like, "No, because your biological father is an asshole."

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh.

Matt:

I said, "Anyways, that's great. I think love's universal, and I identify as this." Then five minutes later, a Facebook post was created by the person I was interested in, saying that I was in a relationship with them. So I came out to one person, and then I got outed [crosstalk].

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh. Well, that can be rough. Was there a lot of backlash in your community from that, or-

Matt:

Yeah, I would say so. My biological mother has lots of close ties to her friends, as you can tell. One of her friends was a priest who happened to be 00:09:00black, and said to my mother, "It's kind of funny that you're not teaching your son about Adam and Eve." And then my mother very much rightfully said that, "If you expect me to teach my son about Adam and Eve, you have to realize that the Bible has been used to say it's illegal for interracial marriages." And he happened to have been in an interracial marriage. So she was like, "You can't use your religion against my biological son if religion has been used against you in the exact same manner, and still think that you're doing the right thing."

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, that's nice that she stood up for you a little bit. Has she been supportive, or...

Matt:

No.

Govinda, Interviewer:

No. [crosstalk].

Matt:

I haven't talked to anyone from my biological family in three years.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, wow. Is that when you moved to college, or-

Matt:

That was the end of my sophomore year. I had messaged, I called people and I was 00:10:00like, "Yeah, this isn't working out. Bye." Well, I didn't say bye, but I had explained in multiple detailed explanations that I saw that they were doing things that was wrong. I saw that they were doing things that was abusive. And by abusive, I don't mean like... Can I curse?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Matt:

Okay.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Let 'er rip.

Matt:

I don't mean like calling me a faggot, or calling me Hispanic slurs, which did happen. I mean like I had siblings who tried to kill each other. And I was very much like, "This isn't okay. This isn't healthy. And I can't be healthy as an individual being part of this, so I'm leaving." And I've recently gotten an email, a couple months before COVID got worse, that was like, "Hey. We understand that you're depressed and gay and no one likes you. [crosstalk]."

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh.

Matt:

And like a list of info. But, "Please come back. You've broken the family. Please heal us." So I don't have contact with anyone, and they haven't been supportive.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Well, I'm happy to hear that you're doing your own thing, and you're being independent and living your life, at least.

Matt:

Yup.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. Circling back to those sociology classes, you mentioned it was hard to connect with your professors about the queer experience. What was that like?

Matt:

So, I remember distinctly I had one professor who happened to have been assigned to me as a academic advisor. I'm not sure... I'm just going to say this in case it changes from now to next year, or if it changes beforehand. But when I went to school, academic advisors were there so that they could take a look at the 00:12:00courses you have taken, and seeing if you were on track to graduate. And at that time, the professor was also black. He was talking about LGBT history, and he had used a source talking about LGBT history that comes from new white supremist websites.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh.

Matt:

And I was like, "Hey. That chart isn't accurate. In fact, in addition to it not being accurate, it's run by a white supremist website, so you might want to update your sources." And in front of the whole class, it was shot down. I didn't know what I was talking about, and that the source doesn't matter, where it came from. The source is still accurate.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Huh. How did that go?

Matt:

I got one of my closest friends to this day out of being angry at that, and she is a bisexual woman who is full of anger.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, good. We need those in our lives. Aww. Well, making friends there. Were there any LGBT groups on campus that you connected with at Western?

Matt:

There was... My history with relation to anyone is not happy. [crosstalk].

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, no.

Matt:

But when it comes to LGBT clubs on campus, there was a club called Saga. WCU has a complicated history, from what I've gathered, with LGBT clubs, and the way that they form and then they dissolve again and again. If I remember correctly, this was WCU's third attempt at a queer club.

Matt:

The first year I was there, I joined the club on and off. Wasn't that present. 00:14:00The second year I was like, "You know what? I really want to be part of the [inaudible]," because I was president, even in Lenoir, a small town, of my local gay club. I had always been an activist in other regards, regardless of if it was about race, if it was about sexuality, if it was about social economic status or feminism. I've always been active in some form. So, I tried to be more active in Saga my second year.

Matt:

What ended up happening was I had personal issues with the people who were also on the board of the club, and not to sound like I'm upset about it... I think that sometimes when people grow up being the victim of society through different versions of oppression, and then they grow up and they realize, or they don't 00:15:00realize, actually, that they've then become part of the people who then perpetuate violence on others, and they still see themselves as victims. So, we had tried to contact them multiple times about fixing different behavioral issues that they were having. It didn't work. I tried talking one on one. It didn't work. I was shown text messages where they were threatening violence against me, where they were talking about me behind my back, where they were trying to get me to leave and never, like never run. It was very messy.

Matt:

At one point I just talked to my best friend, and I was like, "Come with me to this meeting. We're leaving." So, I arrived at the meeting. That meeting, we were talking about the LGBT experience of family. I said my part, which was that I lived in a very abusive family that's very terrible, and they were still more polite and nicer to me than the people there. And I left, and I have yet to come back.

Govinda, Interviewer:

I'm really sorry to hear that. It can be really hard when you face those issues in your own community. Would you mind talking a little bit more about some of the issues you faced? Were these mainly LGBT people that you were experiencing difficulties with?

Matt:

I'm so sorry. Can you please repeat the question?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. I was just wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on some of the difficulty that you had there. Because you know, interdepartmental, I guess, LGBT discrimination is a thing, and we don't really talk about it. You know?

Matt:

Yeah. Part of my issue... Well, I have many issues. But one of the issues that I had with them, their department, was that some of the people who were leading the event at some point was pulling up photos of different LGBT figures and idols, and then was theatricality sexualizing them and objectifying them in 00:17:00front of everyone. And I had pointed out that if we're trying to be a role model, that it requires some strictness and responsibility. And I'm not saying that we weren't and shouldn't have been sexual at all, or that sexual education should be removed within the LGBT identity, because I don't think that at all. But I think the fact that they were sexually objectifying and sexualizing someone that couldn't answer to it, couldn't consent to it, was just a person on the screen, and then doing this for laughs, I felt that highly inappropriate.

Matt:

In addition, it was very much like, for lack of better words, high school, but just went to college. Right? And I think I've made it pretty clear at this point in the interview that I've gone through so much stuff that I have very little patience and time for some things. And when it comes to immaturity, that was one 00:18:00of those things. I simply said, "We need to stop this." I got pushback from certain people, and I said, "Okay. If I can't be a part of the solution, I won't be part of the problem."

Govinda, Interviewer:

Heard. Yeah, it's sometimes hard to do that work, and confront some difficulty in your own community. You know? So I can understand feeling a little distant from that. Have there been any other community groups that you've been able to connect with, maybe like a church that has LGBT programs, or anything to that effect?

Matt:

The closest groups that I have been able to connect with LGBT-wise have been through one of my closest friends and drag. It's kind of sad to say, but my relation to the LGBT community, from someone who is in it, isn't that strong. 00:19:00It's at an arm's length. And the ways that I do communicate in the community have often been through taking care of members who struggle with mental illness, because I have been very great at handling that, advising people who need help, being an advocate for people who need a voice. Like I help out people, individuals within the LGBT community, and that's how I connect. But I don't join any groups or any events. Even in drag, I'm trying to do stuff the hard way. Like I sew all my outfits, which is hard. So, I don't even have that big of a foot there.

Govinda, Interviewer:

I hear you. I mean, I do drag as well, so I know that making your own shit's pretty hard sometimes. And, yeah. Do you think it would be different, would you have a different mentality if you lived in maybe a more metropolitan area, that 00:20:00had more kind of gay functions and stuff? Basically, is being rural kind of a factor there?

Matt:

Yes, completely. Not to make light of it, I mean, but I've been told many times that I don't belong in this area, both as an insult as well as a blessing.

Govinda, Interviewer:

For sure.

Matt:

I think the most radical part of who I am sometimes is just existence. And in an area where I will probably walk outside wearing high heels and makeup and go to work, while presenting masculine, right? To see someone who shows masculinity, and apparently through other eyes or lenses "throws that away," in quotes, right? I don't think that me connecting [inaudible]. I think if I was in a different location or a different city... Or, I don't know. That might just be thinking green could be greener somewhere else.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. I hear you there. I'm just realizing I didn't ask you at the beginning of this interview, what are your pronouns?

Matt:

You can call me he, him. I don't care if you use they, them, or she or her. I'm just, for lack of a better word, ambivalent.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for letting us know. I didn't want to forget that very vital question. We love some pronouns here. All right. So, you've been in Cullowhee for how many years?

Matt:

I think either four or five.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay. That's when you started going to school there?

Matt:

Yes.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. Okay, so when did you start school?

Matt:

It was after I graduated in 2016.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay. Sometime in the fall of 2016? Very cool. You mentioned that you were attending a gay club in Lenoir. Is that where you went to high school?

Matt:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Govinda, Interviewer:

Okay.

Matt:

So, I went to high school at West Caldwell high school, and they had recently started, as a freshman when I went in, GSA.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Matt:

And I had accidentally encouraged a lot more people to join that year. Then the next year I did the same, but I also created a spirit week, like a pep rally spirit week for LGBT identities, as well as become president of the club.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh, look at that. That's amazing. What was that like?

Matt:

To be honest, it was me approaching the GSA teacher with, "I have a list of 00:23:00ideas. What if we just did this?" And a lot of it was... For example, I wanted to have a day where we wore solid colors, and hinted at the idea of wearing pink, because I had known about the pink triangle and its use during the Holocaust, and wanted to work on that. I had known that sometimes LGBT identities are perceived as victims, and I wanted to switch that. Also, I knew, I was smart, that they were doing this around Halloween, so I was like, "Oh, let's just dress up as heroes for a day." You know what I mean?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Matt:

But, I presented the list. Some of the ideas got shot down. Some of them were not. The GSA board was called into the main office, and they had given us a list of other days to fill in. Some of those days were inappropriate, to say the least, because they had play with racial stereotypes. But when you come from a 00:24:00high school that's mascot was a racial stereotype, I don't expect much less or more. Then some of the other ideas were much better, so we found a middle ground from there. I remember they did it my senior year, and I hear they're still doing it.

Govinda, Interviewer:

That is amazing. Look at you, making change in your small community. What was it like going to school in Lenoir? I actually don't know where Lenoir is.

Matt:

It's a little hole in the wall of a town. To be completely blunt, it was terrible. It was trash. It was not good. And I don't mean trash in a good way, because trash can be really great sometimes. But, there was three high schools 00:25:00in the area. All three of them had bad stereotypes around them. And whereas one of the high schools had the idea that everyone was rich and doing rich people drugs, and the other one was just a bunch of rich people doing crimes and getting away with it... Right? West Cullowhee was the poor high school, for the poor people. Right?

Matt:

So, I remember one time laughing in lunch, because I saw this entire herd of conservative camo boys walk across the cafeteria, and then the other side, an entire... I don't know why it's like this... An entire herd of lesbians wearing flannels walking in the other. They were about to flank each other. And I was like, "What's going on here?" Because unbelievably, there was 30 lesbians for every guy that was out, and there was only like three guys that were out. So for 00:26:00some reason, that's just how it ended up being.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Come on, lesbian army. I'm seeing very West Side Story in my head, like [singing].

Matt:

Like the stirrups and everything.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Wow. Well, it sounds like you had a really successful GSA there. Was that present before you got involved, or it sounds like you helped build it up quite a bit?

Matt:

It was currently there when I came as a freshman. I distinctly remember being a very terrible person, and-

Govinda, Interviewer:

Whoa.

Matt:

As a freshman, they had this whole, like, club day, when they're like, "We get to check out all the clubs." And they had every single person for every club up in front and out and in the open, and then down the hallway, down the end of the hallway to the left, was like this one club, and that was GSA. And I had ran 00:27:00into it on accident, because I wander. I have ADHD. I'm constantly wandering and doing stuff. And they were like, "Are you interested?" And I was like, "No. Not right now. I don't want to talk to anyone." Because I was also an introvert, very much at that time.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. So, when did you get involved?

Matt:

I think I got involved my junior year. I was out for a full year, I think, before I joined. And that was just like pettiness, to be honest. I just didn't join out of pettiness.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Sometimes you're going through it in high school, and coming out can be a difficult transition. Huh? I'm sure that that must have changed some things for you at school. You mentioned you kind of got outed. Would you share about that a 00:28:00little bit, or-

Matt:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I've talked with some friends about it, because I try to understand why. But it seems like who I am as a person, I'm not affected the same way by the same things that other people are. So, I talked to one of my close friends who does drag, and she had told me that it's weird how I do drag, and yet I don't... Like I don't participate in hookup culture. I don't seem to fit in with the LGBT identity. And that carried in when I was in high school, because there was jokes being made about me being LGBT. It was very much like the high school stereotypical drama. But weirdly enough, I just didn't care. It didn't affect me. It affected other people, like stuff happen to me. Right? And it affected other people who violence was perpetuated towards them, both from 00:29:00peers as well as the staff. But I think that my issues in high school was not centered around me being LGBT. That was just something that was added on top.

Govinda, Interviewer:

And then you became president of the GSA?

Matt:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Govinda, Interviewer:

What was that like? You helped develop some of those standing traditions now, it sounds like?

Matt:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, I identified at that point not only as bisexual, but very much the introvert side. But there was a bit of abusive family escapism in school, so I was very social. I was a social butterfly. If you had talked to... If you were like, "Hey, do you want to hang out after school?" I would have been like, "No. I have my alone time. I need to have quiet time, where I can drink tea, look at tarot cards, see what's the moon. Do you know what I mean? And then 00:30:00just listen to music."

Matt:

When I initially talked about GSA with some of my friends, I had some people who came out to me, or who came out to me as like bisexual, gay, the whole acronym. We had one person who was gender fluid, and then one person who was trans at that point. But those two individuals left, which honestly, I think I wish strength to them, because that location was terrible for them. But I had honestly gathered, accidentally, a conglomeration of allies who had also joined in that as well. And it went from what I perceived to be a club where there was like seven people in it, and it was like, "We need people or else," to a packed classroom.

Govinda, Interviewer:

That's awesome. That's awesome, especially in a small town like that, that 00:31:00people think of as very conservative. So, it's amazing that you had that much support. Did you see that have an impact on other students that you were in class with?

Matt:

We just talked briefly about how I don't really connect with some people in the LGBT community, and part of that is that I'm really terrible at... I'm very dense. You know what I mean? I'm really great at learning. I promise I'm smart. But I'm just dense, and I don't get hints, and I don't get cues. There's been times where people have talked to me like, "Hey, this person thought about you this way," and I just didn't realize it. So when it came to LGBT identity in high school, I was there for the club. I talked to people. I was kind of like a [inaudible] counselor, because everyone hated the school counselors. But I am 00:32:00sad and honest enough to say that I am not perceptive enough to see how I have affected others in that school.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh. Well, I think it sounds like you did something amazing there. I hope we can connect, if you're still in contact with anybody for that GSA, I would love to get in touch with them, and maybe do an interview with them as well, to see how that's going. Because that's a big deal. It's a conservative area, so I can imagine that that's really helped a lot of the students over there. Okay, the question I've been burning to ask. Tell me about drag in Cullowhee.

Matt:

Terrible for me.

Govinda, Interviewer:

It's terrible.

Matt:

So, we had talked earlier about what it would be like drag-wise if I had been in a metropolitan area, and I feel like I would be a lot happier, a lot more 00:33:00conforming and fitting. Because one of my close friends had recently came out as trans, and we had discussed in the beginning of this interview how gender, it's none of my business. Right?

Govinda, Interviewer:

True.

Matt:

I think that from someone who's very dense like me, the idea of identifying... Like I respect gender identity. I respect gender pronouns. But when it comes to me and how I identify, it's kind of like a question mark. You know what I mean?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Sure.

Matt:

And I respect the process enough to say I, for lack of better words, have other stuff to focus on. So when it came to drag, and the idea of performance of drag, I do sometimes do the performance of gender. It just so happens that for me, 00:34:00it's not always about the performance of gender. Sometimes I wear a wig. Sometimes I don't.

Matt:

The closest way I can describe it was for me doing drag, it became very queer... Sorry, clear... that I was interested in a drag competition called Dragula. But the resources around me of educational services, such as mentors, or how to sell, or et cetera, was low. The person who first did my makeup was a straight woman. Never do that again.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh.

Matt:

Yeah, the entire area [inaudible] the most certain idea of drag that I don't fit into. Which I'm not upset at, okay? Because I like pretty things, too. We both like looking at highlight and glitter. I understand that. It just so happens 00:35:00that in the Cullowhee area, I have performed drag two or three times, and then I've done it once in the auditorium in Asheville, and that was it.

Govinda, Interviewer:

So, for you listeners at home, Dragula is an alternative kind of drag competition, which kind of is the opposite end of the spectrum as RuPaul's Drag Race, which is kind of the mainstream, very... What words am I looking for that are not rude?

Matt:

Pop culture?

Govinda, Interviewer:

It's very pop culture. Well, how would you describe the difference between those two?

Matt:

I think that unfortunately and fortunately, I think they're very closely tied and related to each other. I think that RuPaul's Drag Race was revolutionary and 00:36:00very groundbreaking for its time. I think that they have done stuff over the years to try to, quote/unquote, like "fix" the competition, but they made it worse. I think that they have done some very problematic things. And to quote a very capable person who said a smart thing to me, "Don't forget your roots." Right? You can't change the fact that in America, our queer identity and our... Quote/unquote, "queer liberation," because I don't think we're fully there yet... came from transgender women, from non binary individuals, and from people who were of color, as well as drag queens and sex workers.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Matt:

So, to not include any of those groups is unacceptable to me personally. So, RuPaul's Drag Race as pop culture, as advanced as it is, to include less than 00:37:00three, less than four non binary trans individuals, is unacceptable to me.

Matt:

And then you look at Dragula. I think that as of right now, Dragula has its merits. Right? I think that it tries to push boundaries, and it remembers its roots, at least from what I can tell. I think there is potential for it to go wrong, and I'm a bit afraid of that. But for me, when I look at Dragula, I see that, "Okay, you do pretty drag. Well, you had someone on season three, Louisiana Purchase, who for one of their semifinal... Spoilers.

Govinda, Interviewer:

[crosstalk].

Matt:

Semifinal looks, was like this beautiful Satan woman. Do you know what I mean?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Matt:

The idea of Dragula, of having to be this tense, stable, in your face, like et cetera, edgy, lord, X lord, troll... It's not that anymore. If you want to be a pretty queen, if you want to be the quiet queen, you can be on the competition, and you should. You just also should be versatile, and come prepared enough to understand that they're asking for a certain thing. I personally know that from my drag, as of now, because I'm not that flexible, I'm not going to be joining the dance competition. I can't do a split. I can't do a somersault. Cartwheels, don't text me. I can't do anything. So, yes. I think to sum it all up, I think Dragula is a good start for what it's intended to be.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. Have these shows been influential for you as a drag performer being in a 00:39:00rural area, where maybe you don't have as much access?

Matt:

I'm so sorry. Can you please repeat that?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Being in a rural area, basically what kind of media do you access as a drag performer? It sounds like RuPaul's Drag Race and Dragula were very influential on your drag.

Matt:

So, there are they/them musical performers that I listen to, like Jasmine Bean. So, Jasmine Bean did this video about who they are as a person, and they said, quote, "I tried drag. It was boring. It wasn't fun and experimental enough for me." [inaudible]. I think that part of my spiritual practice comes in as a person, but not to be like edgy, and, "Ooh, this is who I am." That comes in 00:40:00effect. Music definitely comes in effect with people who are [inaudible] metal artists. In this moment, drag performers such as Adore Delano from RuPaul's Drag Race.

Matt:

I don't have a huge list of inspirations towards like people. Sometimes it comes from media like the movie Nine, where you have these stitch punk dolls who are literally knitted into it, into form, and they go about their adventures that I'm not going to spoil, because I think that's semi of a good movie.

Govinda, Interviewer:

It's a good movie. I know what you're talking about.

Matt:

So for me, media and inspiration are very hard to define.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah. So, you mentioned a couple places that you have done performances for. Are there other organizations or LGBT groups that you have worked with in drag, or 00:41:00out of drag?

Matt:

I don't think so, if I can be honest.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Matt:

I think that that's one of the things that I think I feel is currently a failing as a drag performer, as well as an advocate, is that I felt hurt at past interactions with LGBT individuals, and I let that get in my head and my heart, and I didn't reach out as quickly as I wanted to. I have taken more stances on other issues, such as racial inequality recently, both because I'm Hispanic, even though I'm white passing. I'm dating someone who is African-American, and my racist family did use the hard NR word.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Oh.

Matt:

So, I'm focusing on other forms of advocacy. But when it comes to LGBT, I definitely think that I've failed, and I could have reached out to people.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Well, there's always time. Oh, sorry. That's my cat, just hanging out. There's always time to get involved. Maybe not during a global pandemic, but... Are there any that you can think of in the area that you think of as like an asset to the community, whether it's been and Cullowhee or Asheville or other surrounding areas?

Matt:

Like LGBT clubs, or-

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yeah, just anything that you're aware of that maybe you've reached out to before to help support, or have received support from, or who has a cool Instagram?

Matt:

[inaudible]. I think, to be transparent, I've only gotten support from one group of people, and that has always been drag queens. It has been individual drag 00:43:00queens. I don't have that deep ties into drag, simply because I am very stupid, and I try to do things the hard way sometimes. But the people I have talked to who are drag queens sometimes do hear me out, and they understand that I'm doing things the hard way because I believe in that thing. And maybe that thing is wrong, but it is what it is. And they see that...

Govinda, Interviewer:

This is my cat. I'm sorry.

Matt:

It's chill. I feel like some queens... I'm going to name one who's very, very [crosstalk]-

Govinda, Interviewer:

Name names.

Matt:

... for me. What?

Govinda, Interviewer:

Name names.

Matt:

Okay. So, there's this queen called Beulah Land. She's amazing.

Govinda, Interviewer:

Yes.

Matt:

She is like, "One second. I have to go make some gravy, climb a mountain and be 00:44:00a countrywoman," and I'm like, "What's going on here?" And you wouldn't expect her to have these conversations with me at like... One second. Yeah, 4:00 in the morning, about gender identity and social economic status, and like the privilege of being out versus not being. We have these deep conversations. I lived on Beulah's couch when I was homeless and I had to leave my family, so I had support from her. There's been other queens who I've talked to. I was once very close with a queen... Not queen. A performer named Brad Rung. I was very...