Oral History with Nancie Wilson, Part 2 (2022)

Sarah Steiner:

This is Sarah Steiner doing a follow-up interview with Nancie Wilson. It is April 7th of 2022, and we are in Cullowhee, North Carolina. Today we're going to be talking about the establishment and development of the Safe Zone Program at Western Carolina University. Nancie, thank you for talking with us.

Nancie Wilson:

I'm glad to do it, and I'm glad you all are interested.

Sarah Steiner:

Yeah. Yeah. You have a lot of documentation here.

Nancie Wilson:

Yeah. This is the original documentation from when Safe Zone started at Western in 2011, I believe. It was an offshoot or caused by two things, Safe Zone was. One, the ordination of the nation's first gay bishop, and secondly, the North Carolina legislature thinking it was going to be a good idea to pass a bill that 00:01:00would prohibit, in effect, same-sex marriages, not only marriages, but prohibit private businesses or companies, from hiring couples who were married, who were of the same sex.

Nancie Wilson:

Now, this delving into other people's affairs by the government ain't new, by a long shot. This was just one of the first things that brought it to mind. And of course, as you may have paid attention when Bishop Robinson, Gene Robinson, was elected and was openly the first gay bishop, there was a public outcry, not just in the Episcopal Church, but nationwide. What do you guys think you're doing?

Nancie Wilson:

And so, our bishop at that time, whose name is Porter Taylor, thought that... 00:02:00Bishop Robinson had written a book and Bishop Taylor, the local bishop, thought it would be a fine idea if our priest, Michael Hudson, here at the time, would hold a diocesan wide meeting to talk about the issue, and to talk about Bishop Robinson's book.

Nancie Wilson:

And so, we met at St. James in Black Mountain and a lot of people attended, which I found surprising. The Dioceses of Western North Carolina made available some money in the form of a grant. My partner, the Reverend Deacon Alice Mason, wrote the grant and we got it. The grant was specifically for Western to begin a 00:03:00Safe Zone Project. That was spearheaded over there by Chris Dahlquist. Do you know Chris?

Sarah Steiner:

Yeah.

Nancie Wilson:

Okay. Chris took the lead on campus about it. We had a professor come down from the University of Pennsylvania, whose name that I don't recall, perhaps I can find it in here somewhere. But she came down to help us get the thing kicked off and talked to us about how you train and that sort of thing.

Nancie Wilson:

We had a weekend meeting with her and it was a very positive thing. Chris worked very hard, because he knew a lot of people on campus who were gay who didn't 00:04:00want anybody to know that, and he worked very hard in getting those folks onboard.

Nancie Wilson:

And so, Safe Zone, as far as I know, went very well at Western. It has been recently that SCC has gotten onboard, and I want to say that's maybe perhaps two or three years ago. Now they have a very active group of Safe Zone people at SCC, which delighted me, because I teach there, not on campus anymore. Had I been on campus, I would have pushed it more than I did, but I just teach online now.

Nancie Wilson:

I think what's important for people to understand is, number one, Safe Zone ain't new. Number two, when you see that decal, and you all's new decal is 00:05:00different. When you see that decal it means you will be in a safe place, it doesn't going to matter if your gay, lesbian, transgendered, a victim of domestic violence, wherever need to be safe means to you, this would be a safe place, whether it's a professor's office, a church, or wherever.

Nancie Wilson:

And so, basically what I wanted to get across to go along with the interview that I did a couple weeks ago, what I wanted to get across is that Safe Zone is very vibrant, growing, enlarging... It has become a living entity in and of itself, and we here at St. David's are very proud to be a Safe Zone... Well, you 00:06:00saw the sticker on the door, a Safe Zone location. It's on our sign down there at the road.

Nancie Wilson:

Our vestry just voted to invest in a flagpole which will go out front out there, and what will fly from that pole will be the Episcopal flag and the Rainbow flag, and I can't wait to see how long that lasts, to be honest with you, because our banner, Black Lives Matter, the first one got stolen, and now they're going to have to take the whole rail to get it off with this new one.

Nancie Wilson:

But my point is, there's always going to be people that don't agree, and that's fine. It doesn't bother us a bit, but we also intend to fully avail ourselves of the same right to agree.

Nancie Wilson:

I don't know if you're a part of it, Sarah, yourself. I can't remember when they 00:07:00last did their training but was when- was it when Chris was here?

Sarah Steiner:

Dean Paulk had taken over for a little bit but now Dean has departed.

Nancie Wilson:

Who?

Speaker 3:

Dean Paulk was his name.

Nancie Wilson:

I don't know him.

Speaker 3:

But they do it regularly. And now has a little spin-off.

Nancie Wilson:

Okay, good.

Speaker 3:

Some sections.

Nancie Wilson:

Good.

Speaker 3:

To put out primary content.

Nancie Wilson:

Okay. Well, it needs to be something that needs to be rolled out. And it started, this will freak you out, it started at the University of Alabama.

Sarah Steiner:

Really?

Nancie Wilson:

Yeah, by two kids, two young men who were gay, and I think this was back in 2000, maybe 2001. By two young gay men who felt the need for safety and for a 00:08:00place to go and be with people of like minds. That's how it started, and it sort of mushroomed from there. They say, for everything there is a season. Well, that must have been the season for Safe Zone.

Sarah Steiner:

Could you share details about how it was initially structured and what sorts of things you covered when you were training?

Nancie Wilson:

Got the training manual right there.

Nancie Wilson:

We talked about common language. We talked about what you need to do, the missing realities of bisexuality, sexual identity development, like a college course condensed. Where the rainbow flag came from? What does it mean? And it 00:09:00was a whole, I think it was all day. It was a Friday afternoon and all day Saturday training.

Sarah Steiner:

For the trainers or for the participants?

Nancie Wilson:

No, for the participants.

Sarah Steiner:

Sure.

Nancie Wilson:

We got our training through the Lady from Pennsylvania. And some people took the training who were not gay, but they took it because for example, we have two couples in our parish who are parents of gay or lesbian children, but they wanted to take it simply because they wanted the information.

Nancie Wilson:

I'm going to send you a really nice poem. I'm only one person, and you can 00:10:00include that with your archives.

Sarah Steiner:

Would you like to read it?

Nancie Wilson:

Yeah. "I'm only one person. What can one person do? Rosa Parks was just one person. She said just one word. She said it on December the 1st, 1955. One person said one word, said it on a bus, she said it to the bus driver on the Cleveland Street bus in Montgomery. The bus driver said, stand up nigger woman, and give up your seat to that white man. Rosa Parks. One person said one word. The word was no.

Nancie Wilson:

One woman said one word and a nation blushed. One woman said one word and a world talked. One woman said one word and the Supreme Court acted. One woman said one word and the buses were desegregated. I'm only one person. What can one person do?"

Sarah Steiner:

That's beautiful.

Nancie Wilson:

Yeah.

Sarah Steiner:

And was that shared in the training?

Nancie Wilson:

Oh yeah. Yeah. They each got copies of that.

Sarah Steiner:

Sure.

Nancie Wilson:

If you'd like, I can scan that in and send it to you.

Sarah Steiner:

That'd be great.

Nancie Wilson:

But the training came as a result of a very active Episcopal diocese of Western North Carolina, of clergy and lay people who cared. For example, here's part of 00:12:00the training assessment of personal homophobia.

Nancie Wilson:

Somebody would say to you, I'm not homophobic. Okay, good. Listen, we got 12 questions here for you.

Sarah Steiner:

Yes.

Nancie Wilson:

When I read stuff like that, that was back then. We are in a whole different world now. Gay people are rearing up on their hind legs like Rosa Parks and seeing, we're not going to put up with you and your attitude, any damn more. And that's what it takes. That's what the guys at Western are doing, at Safe Zone. They've made a great plan. The administration, everybody else, they aren't going to take it.

Nancie Wilson:

So they made a plan at SCC, they aren't going to take it. Although SCC's 00:13:00probably the most LBGT, whatever, all initials friendly of any place around here.

Sarah Steiner:

Yeah.

Nancie Wilson:

We have a very loving and compassionate faculty and staff. They just are who they are. My dean's secretary likes multicolored unicorns.

Sarah Steiner:

Yeah.

Nancie Wilson:

And I told her, I said, we need a Safe Zone for unicorn lovers.

Sarah Steiner:

Yeah.

Nancie Wilson:

But any other questions?

Sarah Steiner:

No. Anything else you'd like to share?

Nancie Wilson:

Nope. I just wanted to get that part in.

Sarah Steiner:

Yeah.

Nancie Wilson:

Of how important Safe Zone is to the world.

Sarah Steiner:

Well, thank you.