Oral History with Elaine Ferguson

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

So we've recorded a bunch of things, just with video. So I'm dealing with a new microphone here, so my apologies to you, Elaine, but we will start again. So again, well, I'll just go with the script this time. Thank you for sharing your time and the gift of your stories. We can take a break at any time or end the interview at any point.

My name is Rachel Muir. I am working with Blue Ridge Pride at the YMCA, who has been a contributor to this project and Amanda Ray of UNC, Asheville Three-Quarter histories. From elders and members of the LGBTQ community and their allies. With your permission, all stories will be archived with special collections at UNC Asheville and available as audio video typed transcript files. You'll be contacted to review your typed transcription in advance in publication. In case, you wish to make any changes, corrections, or name restrictions. I also mentioned at this point, we are being recorded not only by 00:01:00video, but with sound.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Got it.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

So, and you have already signed the release form, so we're ready to go. I'll just mention the date. It's April 29th. We are in Arden, North Carolina. We are in my office in my home. And Elaine, thank you for coming to visit here.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

My pleasure.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

So...

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And it is 2022.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

And it's 2022. Yes, yes. And the long term, we hope this is a resource that will be around for many years. So it's worthwhile mentioning the year. Let's see, is there anything else I should mention? Oh, your full name please?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Oh my goodness. I try not to use my first name.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. The name you choose to share with us.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Elaine Ferguson.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. And you were born in what year?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

1956.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

And in what location?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Good. You pronounced it right, I didn't. So, and you've been living in the greater Asheville area since?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

1974, so 48 years.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. Thank you. We've done something this time is that Elaine's interested in eventually doing interviews herself. So she went to the training class last week and she's become familiar with the process. We went over these more or less standard questions that are used for these interviews. And in this case, she's gone through the questions and she's picked out the one she'd like to address first. So we're going to go from that list. And we'll start with this one. How would you describe yourself in regards to gender, race, ability, socioeconomics, or any other way you'd like to describe yourself?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I describe myself as female and white, working on being healthier physically and 00:03:00I've retired a couple years ago. So my income is different. Started Medicare last year, but I think it's going to be okay.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. So you've already indicated how long you've been here. What brought you here and what keeps you here?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I came to Swannanoa to attend Warren Wilson College in 1974 and graduated in 1978. Spent some time in Asheville, in the Kenilworth area. I lived there for a while and bought my home in Swannanoa, three miles from Warren Wilson college. I knew when I was a student there that I would buy my house in the Swannanoa 00:04:00Valley, because I feel, I always felt very nestled there, very cared for, and it's my heart home. It's where I belong. I feel, I don't hesitate in knowing that, that's the right place for me.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So that has kept me here. And I met my best friend at Warren Wilson in 75. So I had been there one year and she still lives in this area.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And we have been best friends ever since.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

It's a little bit offside, but it's a question that I've been thinking about lately as I've gotten older, is what do lifelong friendships like that mean to you?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. It means everything. This is someone that I can talk with, who can say, well, I remember you when you were in your, when you were 19 and when you were 00:05:00in your twenties and your thirties and your forties and your fifties and your sixties. And I can say that to her, although she's nine years older than I. So I start with, I met you when you were in your twenties and now she's in her seventies. So having that kind of consistency, someone who I know truly loves me for who I am and has been through all the ups and downs and ins and outs and thick and thins is it's an anchor.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah. Yeah. I just have a few friends that go back to high school, but I treasure them as well. Let's see here talked about what kept you here. Oh, why don't you talk about your young life, where you grew up and what it was like and 00:06:00what you remember about it?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So my dad got a pastorate when he was still in college in Lancaster County. That's where he and my mother, they had just gotten married. He had not graduated. And I came along, they were married in 54 and I came along in 56 and he didn't graduate until after I was born. But he had this position. He was, they needed to substitute at this little country church. And they came to the college and said, we need a minister for Sunday. And so my dad preached that first sermon. He had his first service without even being ordained. And he was there for 42 years.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

That's amazing.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So he went in a student pastor and he retired from the same church. So my childhood, there was a little house just right up the street from the church 00:07:00that one of the church members allowed us to live in. Meanwhile, they built the manse for us to live in, across the street from the church. So my childhood was, and my father going to work. He walked across the street. Anytime I walked out my front door, there was Unionville Presbyterian Church. And so I was the oldest and I didn't have a sibling for about six and a half years and my sister was born and then about a year and a half later, and my brother was born. So they grew up together there. When I came down here, they were still of course in school. So my childhood was pleasurable. I was in the small community, which for 00:08:00a long time, I was an only child and everybody in the church was like, oh, Reverend Ferguson's daughter, she's so cute. Let's buy all of her girl scout cookies.

So I felt safe there spent a lot of time outdoors playing with the little boy next door. And we grew up together and went to a very small school, as you might think.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Since it was a small community, which then consolidated with another school district of elementary schools so that we were together as a high school. There was no middle school at that point, I went from elementary school in sixth grade to seventh grade at the high school with seniors. And I'm like, whoa, but I didn't have a problem being the minister's daughter. Now my sister, on the other 00:09:00hand, when she has her oral history done, she's going to have a whole different story to tell, but I felt like people had my back.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And that was a great way to grow up.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Communitywide or churchwide or all the above?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I mean, the whole thing I felt supported in my household, my dad and I were extremely close. He just passed, it'll be two years, June.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And I miss him terribly and died during COVID and we weren't allowed to be there. So that was hard. But that's another story too, touches me deeply. But he and I spent a lot of time together as an only child. And he was just so excited to be a dad. And he was a gardener and just a gentle spirit. So he would always 00:10:00say, honey, you and I are just like two peas in a pod. And that makes me smile.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

What can you think of some particularly happy moments or moments that would shape your later life from your childhood?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, one story that he likes to tell is that when I was at toddler, he would come out, the service would start in church and he would walk out, he'd have his robe on the whole nine yards to not be sitting with my mother. I don't know if I was in the front row, but we were pretty close to the front. And I would say, that's my daddy! So of course that made him smile, but he and my mother was a lovely, awesome. They were a good fit for that community. Just giving, loving, 00:11:00giving, generous, thoughtful people. And so all of that shaped me.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Because I would use those words for myself as well. Yeah.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

How big was the town?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Oh gosh, there wasn't even a stoplight. So I really don't know the church was of course small in number. And as my dad being there for 42 years, of course he built it up, but also it was close to Wilmington, Delaware and DuPont was there.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And so some of those folks were moving, were coming to Wilmington to work and then moving to the suburbs and found our little church and liked what they found there. And so that was an interesting change too, but thanks to my mother and 00:12:00father, but I mean, this was a community where the fire department was right up the road and it was all volunteer. You know, there was a grange that was active, kind of like a Rotarian type thing. I mean, all of those little things that you have to really hunt for sometimes these days were the strawberry festival and the ox roast and all of those things where people baked things and brought them for sale to make money for the fire department or something like that.

So Girl Scouts, my dad had a program at church that called God and community, and that was for the Girl Scouts and God and country for the Boy Scouts and worked with us, took us to nursing homes and to the mental hospital that was 00:13:00nearby. I mean, he would take us there, we would sing little songs and hymns and that kind of thing. And that just said "you are part of this community", which is one of the reasons why I love Swannanoa, because it's pretty much a mirror of Unionville.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I've actually been to Unionville.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

No way.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

How could you, how could you be in Unionville?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I had friends in Chester County.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Oh my gosh. What a small world.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

And I also occasionally had work in Wilmington, so...

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Isn't that something?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah. So I have a mental image, I think of...

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. So Horse Country Rolling Hills, beautiful.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah. Much more suburban now than it was the first time I visited there. But...

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah, now it has a stoplight

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Now it has a stoplight. My hometown still doesn't have one, but. So, okay. Let me see what other, you've had quite a few questions here. So let's, move on a little bit.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Sure.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

How did you come out to yourself, to other gay people, to your family, to other straight people? How, and when did you first tell them? And you can take those in any order that you wish.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, I absolutely refused to believe that I could possibly be gay. When I was in high school, I didn't date at all. I was preacher's kid and I mean, there just wasn't anyone who asked me so, and so when I got to Warren Wilson as a freshman, I didn't think anything differently than I would hopefully finally 00:15:00date a guy. I just wanted to have a date, but it wasn't a priority for me. I just liked being around people and I was trying to get adjusted and I already knew about Warren Wilson because I had two cousins that preceded me and we would bring them down to the college, my folks.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

We would bring them down. And I came down to Warren Wilson for a church camp because my dad was a Presbyterian minister. Warren Wilson was a Presbyterian college.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And so that's how we got connected there. And I got a scholarship. And so I already knew about Warren Wilson and I already, I just loved it. So didn't think about being gay. And then in my freshman year, I dated two guys. They were both 00:16:00from Thailand because Warren Wilson had a huge intercultural community there. Student population was one of the reasons why I went there too. People from all over the world that had been given an opportunity to study abroad. And so the first guy I dated, it was pretty much, handholding and maybe a kiss I don't remember. And then his partner came in and I would say partner in crime, because as it turns out, they had a little something going where they targeted freshmen girls. And I didn't have any prior experience.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Sure.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And I was very, very gullible as far as I knew that meant now we were going to get married and move to Pennsylvania and he would be getting the job and my parents would get us a car and all this, so very, very Pollyannish, very naive. Didn't have a clue what was going on, but was no longer a Virgin. And right after that, I guess maybe, that was my freshman year, my sophomore year, I had a roommate and this Warren Wilson phenomenon in the 75 occurred, it turns out there were a lot of us there, most who didn't, hadn't pursued being a lesbian or a gay guy.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And we were discovering it together. It was a phenomenon. It really was. And as 00:18:00in most small communities, that meant that we were switching partners and figuring out who we should be with and how that should be and how that would go. And...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I admit, I didn't know that about Warren Wilson College. So new to me.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Most people don't know that, but in the '70s, that was very much the whole, for the rest of the time I was there.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Was about figuring out who I was and so a lot of those folks, my classmates, my dorm mates, my roommates came to the understanding that they were gay before I did, I fought it. I fought it because, how could that be? What? Didn't mean that 00:19:00I didn't spend time or hang out or go to do places with them, gathers and that kind of thing, but and they would just say, one of these days, this is going to hit you. You're just going to know.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

That this is, you are a lesbian, so there was a lot of support, but also we were all going through that stage of curiosity and questioning and figuring out who we were in lots of other ways, too, what direction we wanted to go in. And it was the supportive, it was nerveracking to me in a lot of ways, but it was an exciting time.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

So you felt like you had a supportive community surrounding you to some degree. Certainly.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. We were supporting each other. I mean, even that whole thing about, well, I think I like her, but you're with her, so how does that? I mean, that's teenage, right?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Even that didn't turn out to be a heartbreaking, I mean, of course it is heartbreaking, but it was like, we were, we realized that there were so many of us there that we had options and we could, we could feel safe, I think.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. Once we went to the bar for the first time. But that's another part of the story.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

So what was the student population in 1975?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Oh my gosh. It was so small. Pretty much everybody knew each other's names. I'm going to say 400.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I don't know if I'm right about that, but, and at Warren Wilson that every student works and that's, you pay for your room and board. So I might be, I was in education classes and knew that small group that were in my education 00:21:00classes, but then I also had job on campus. And so I met a whole slew of new people, not to mention the folks that were in the dorm. That was another group of folks.

So I was, it was a fantastic opportunity to learn about different people. And like I said, there was a big intercultural community there. And I had that opportunity too. And by the way about the guy from Thailand, I don't, I must have said something about marriage or something. I don't know what I said. He looked at me, he says, oh no. He says I'm going to be marrying the young lady or the girl, whatever you say from Thailand, there's a student here in your dorm and she doesn't really have a choice.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh my.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm from Thailand and she's from Thailand and that's what 00:22:00we're going to do.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And they did. And they had children and they stayed in Buncombe County. So...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh my.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Anyway, so very, very narrow there. But...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

What, so it sounds like that you had a community, but was there something that helped you come out both to yourself and then more widely, for example, family or a larger circle of friends? What was that process like?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, my best friend that came in 1975 that was divorced, had just divorced, had realized that she was a lesbian as well. And so she was going through all of these changes, even though she was nine years older and she didn't live on campus, but she was such an influence and not just with me. This book looking 00:23:00for, Sheville, was written by a friend of ours who also graduated from Warren Wilson and my best friend and I are characters in her book. This was about the time period after she graduated in the '70s into the early '80s. So she was also a best friend of my best friend.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh, wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

It was like that, so...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Where does the term Sheville come from?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Asheville

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. And why, why Sheville?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, it's Asheville without the A.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And it was, it's about lesbians in Asheville.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

In Asheville. Okay. That's...

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

During that time period in late '70s or early '80s.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. So...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Sound like a resource for our project.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

There is no doubt about it and you can get that through malaprops.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah, yeah. No, this was my signed copy because I was in the book, but she used pseudonyms for all the character, all the people that are in there. The stories are very true.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wonderful.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good way to, if you want to know what it was like at that point in time, but my best friend was such an influence. And so she was realizing that she was also a lesbian and she was also coming to a lot of discoveries and I was very influenced.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

By her experiences and her describing she's a great describer.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Would you characterize her maybe as a mentor?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I would characterize her as a mentor for sure.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So, she's one of those people that would say "of course, you're a lesbian" 00:25:00sooner or later, and she had a nickname for me and she still has a nickname for me and it's Boe B-O-E.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So she would look at me and she said, "Boe one of these days is just going to you're just going to go. Oh yeah" So, and she was right. And it was gradual. And even though I wasn't declaring it being a lesbian to myself, which meant then I wasn't declaring it to anyone else. I was still a part of what was going on. There were people in the community that lived in the community that were not students there. That once we started going to people's homes, there were so few out lesbian engaged people in Asheville in the '70s, even when we started going to the bars. Well, in the beginning there was just one bar, but that's the story 00:26:00I'll tell later.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

But once we started to meet other people from the community, they were accepting of us. Oh, cool. There's more of us, so they were going to have a barbecue or just an outing or whatever. Oh, let's get, let's let those students over there at Warren Wilson know, and see if they want to come. And we did. And so that was really how we started to blend.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And then a lot of us stayed here after we graduated. And so our community grew and grew just with that, with those parameters, you know?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I have to mention something. I think it was about 1998. And I came down to Asheville for work, a lot of federal national resource agencies here. And I 00:27:00remember seeing a bumper sticker and tell me if you saw the same one, it said, Asheville: 10,000 lesbians can't be wrong. I don't know if you ever saw that, but did you ever have that sense in the time that you lived here? That wow, there's an exceptional number of people in my community here?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

No, it, I'm going to use the word never for me felt like there weren't that many of us, it always felt, I mean, never, always, I mean, really it hasn't been until the last five or 10 years that I would say Asheville has quite a large number of lesbians here. And that's very recent and I'm like, like I can look at 00:28:00list of names. I'm like, I don't know any of these people. And that is the total opposite of what it was for me. The majority of the time that I've been here.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

You know, as an adult.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

You know, and making friends and meeting people. I mean, there was so few of us that we, and again, I do want to get into this, but at another time, but just as an example now was establishing a chapter. And so we wanted to, we wanted a community center, a space where we could come and cooperate and say, "Hey we're part of this" And found out that we weren't really welcome.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

To the national organization of women. Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Even this chapter of, this in this little place of Asheville, because it was little at that point.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Nothing like it is now. So, yeah.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I'm learning stuff as we go. Thank you. What kinds of emotional support did you 00:29:00seek and find during that process? And if you could maybe assign just decades of your life, to which this happened, my twenties, my thirties, my forties.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Okay.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Whatever.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

That I recognized. How did you say the question? What is it?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

What kind of emotional support did you seek or find during that process?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, upon graduation and not moving and having lots of other folks that didn't go anywhere, either the emotional support was each other.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

The network you'd formed in school primarily.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. The group that was formed in school and then the different people that we met as we started to venture out and be invited to things. There really didn't 00:30:00seem to be that many lesbians then, there was more gay guys. And if there were more lesbians, they were more in the rural areas and not really coming to Asheville to go to the bar or to events. I think once they discovered themselves, discovered each other in any of these 18 Western counties.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

It wasn't so much that they were wanting to maybe even be out.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Just kind of kept to themselves.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

They really did. They really kept to themselves. So the group that we were trying to, I don't even know if I, if I'm saying this right. I'll just say to fit with, was the gay guys, because if we're going to the bar, that's who we saw most of the time, unless we were bringing our lesbian friends with us and we 00:31:00were going together to a dance or something or to show cool or whatever. Just those of us that we already knew because there weren't really that many other that we knew of until people started to move here, even back then there was a slight influx, I would say.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Again, a lot of those people stayed, but you know, people transcend, sometimes they, oh, I think I'll try Asheville. Well, I think I'll go to Providence town or something.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

So about the folks that were coming in. Did you ever any sense what brought them to Asheville as well? Do you think Asheville had a reputation as a welcoming place?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Not at that point.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

And that would be '70s, '80s.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. I would say, excuse me. I would say not at that point. I don't know. Maybe friends would say, Hey, do you want to come and check out Asheville I really 00:32:00like living here I've found some friends and I found a place, got a good job maybe you want to check out.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Job vacancy that way, some people would do that. And like I said, would stay and then they became very much a part of that community in the '80s.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. So it was kind of word of mouth.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I would say so.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay. Interesting. In the coming out process, did you lose friends or family or institutions? Did you have to leave something behind?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, one of the good things about Warren Wilson is that we, once it became obvious that we were experiencing this coming out, the college didn't ostracize us and didn't try to stop it. I'm not saying that we were encouraged, but it 00:33:00wasn't like, we're not having that here at this Presbyterian college, you weren't ostracized. Because even when I first started there, there was a rule that if a male was in a female dorm, the door had to be open and there had to be, and each person had to have one foot on the floor. That was in 74. That was still happening.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So, and also the church was on campus Warren Wilson College Presbyterian Church. So the minister there was very influential. And the associate who I think, I know I talked with on several occasions about, well, how can this be? How can I be a Christian and be a lesbian? And that certainly isn't the way I was raised. However, my parents were not firing brimstone people. They were Jesus loves the 00:34:00little children, all the children of the world read and yellow, black, and white. They are precious in the sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world. That's what I knew. As far as I was concerned, a person was a person, was a person and loved by God. So that helped me do some maybe justification or, but it finally came together for me, but I did, I used those resources and wasn't put in, didn't feel like I was put in a box and that was important.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

My folks. So I think it was fordian, there was a book that I brought home at Christmas that I was going to read and it was called loving women. I think I'm 00:35:00thinking I'm right about that big and white, big white book. And in our family, we had a practice of putting whatever needed to go upstairs on the steps.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

On the steps.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So that next time the next person went up, you just took it up with you. Right?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Sure.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, I left that book on the stairs and one day I was out visiting a relative or whatever, and my dad picked it up. And when I got home, he says, no, honey, I'd like to have a conversation with you about this book you're reading. And really, it was just like, that's his mannerism, that's his style. He says, now what exactly is this book about? And I had to decide right then, because at that point I wasn't, I had not come out to myself.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Sure.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

But thought pretty much I was getting ready to. And I think maybe part of that 00:36:00was needing to let them know this is where I was thinking about and not going like this, and I felt like I didn't want to do it, but I needed to do it. And I said, well, dad, I said, it's about women loving women.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow. That's straightforward.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, but that could mean anything, right?

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Right. I suppose. But...

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I said women love all kinds of people I don't even know something just whatever, my dad was like, well, I looked through the book, honey. And I think there's a little more to it than that. And I said, well, yes, I think there is. And so I told him about what I was thinking and feeling and about Ruth, my best friend.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh, okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And so she had to deal with my folks not being sure she was a great influence on me, which she was strong enough to handle on. I know, but the outcome of that after a while, I can't even tell you how long that while was of uncomfortableness and trying to decide how we were going to handle Elaine being a lesbian. The outcome of that was my folks saying, we love you. We support you, we don't think this is the right way for, this is not a good lifestyle for you 00:38:00to go the way for you to go. But you're our daughter and we're here.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

How did your siblings respond?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, that's the funniest part of all of this. So I have a sister who is a year and a half younger than me and a brother who is a year and a half younger than her. And as it turns out, my sister is also a lesbian and my sister also moved to Asheville.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh, wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Right after high school and became an immersed within our community and has lived her life with her friends. And I've lived my life with my friends. Then every once in a while, we're at a gathering. And we say, oh, Hey, so that made 00:39:00it interesting. But here were my folks with two out of three, and they're not really sure what to do with that. You know? I mean, how did that happen? And what part did, might we have played in that? And...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah, that's often a response. What did I do? You know, a parent thinking about their children or did I not do.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So basically what happened was not so much their uncomfortableness, although it was definitely there, but how that played out in the community of this small town, because I was away. But my sister was still in high school. So when she came to visit me soon after that, and she was going to come out to me here in Asheville, I was going to be coming out to her about seven years older than her. 00:40:00And so that was how that conversation went. I have something to tell you, oh, I have something to tell you too.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh, really?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. So

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Did you, either one of you have any vibes, any suspicion that, that's what was going On?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I don't, I can't answer for her, but I don't think.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

You were surprised.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I was surprised because you know, she was, she had boyfriends.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

You know, I didn't date anyone. I was the preacher's daughter. She was the preacher's daughter who didn't want to be the preacher's daughter.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Ah, the rebellious preacher's daughter.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. So the answer to that question is the community didn't know about me, but they did know about her and she was rebellious and it was the rebellion, not 00:41:00just the, oh, I think she likes women or girls too, because she, until she took a girl to the prom, the senior prom.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Oh my.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And she was dressed in a tux.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

What year was this?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

This was 80. That was, I think that makes sense. Right. Because 74, I was at Wilson and she's about seven. Yeah. That was that's about right.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

It was probably newsworthy in 1980.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And it was, it made it difficult for my folks. So my sister is out, I'd be, I would be nervous about talking about her in this way without, but my sister is out.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And proud. It just took me longer to figure that out.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

For myself. Yeah.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Is she married or?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

No, but she also ran into the same thing that I did. She chose a profession where she, it wasn't a good idea to be out for the most of the time that she has been in this profession.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I see.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And she is still in that profession.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

My goodness.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So, I'm just going to leave it at that, because that would be up to her, of course.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Sure.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

But in terms of being in the community yeah, she's out,

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow. It's striking that it's 2022 and same sex marriage has been legal for seven years. And, but we still have stories like that. Well, I can't really talk about that because of my job or the church I attend or the community that I live in. That's still prevalent. That's tough. Still, things to be done.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah, for sure.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Well, those are the questions in our interview that you had already checked for today.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Okay.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Are there some other things you want to talk about in this session or something that's on your mind?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I can talk about, I can talk about the profession that I chose and how that happened.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I did study education when I was at Warren Wilson and I did graduate with a degree and a certification, but I could not find a teaching position for 15 years.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

My.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And so I was in Asheville and applying to city schools, county schools, and all the neighboring counties and could not, could not get my foot in the door. My concentration was social studies. So I started working on my master's one class 00:44:00at a time and getting various different jobs. I did as many interims as I could, substitute teaching, lots of after school programs. I mean, anything that I could do to work with kids, young people to get my foot in the door. And plus I enjoyed them.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Was there an age group that drew your focus in particular?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

I wanted to teach seventh grade, North Carolina history and I did that one time by accident, but no, I was working on my master's and they were saying to me, we need science and math teachers. And I said, well, it's not going to be math. So when I graduated with my master's, that was at 89. And even before I had my 00:45:00master's, I had a job teaching science and I had one all for the rest of my career, teaching science, but I just, there was no social studies. The reason I say by accident is because I finally did get my foot in the door at Buncombe Community School, which is now called Community High School, which is in Swannanoa. And the guy that hired me, the principal that hired me was a Warren Wilson graduate. And he had gotten a grant that would allow as Asheville City students to attend. Because at that point they didn't have a school for kids that needed alternative education.

And so at the school we taught lots of things that might not have been in our, not lots of things, but some things that maybe we weren't, we hadn't gone to school for.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Right.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So I got to teach seventh grade, North Carolina history one year at that school, but that's, I finally did get my foot in the door, but it was 15 years later.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And it wasn't because of Warren Wilson, not having a good reputation. As a matter of fact, not only that, when I did my student teaching, I did it at Reynolds High School, no, excuse me, Reynolds, Middle School. And by that point I had at Warren Wilson, there was an athletic director there who took a shine to me. And I guess I would put him under the category of mentor also. And I realized that not only did I have an interest in social studies, but also the athletic department. And at while I was there, I helped to start women's softball.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

With his help. And I wanted to include this. I would say that every student has 00:47:00to work. Well, one of the positions was intramural coordinator. So I was taking classes with Hank. And one day I went to do an intermural with some other females. I don't know, volleyball, I think it was.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And that guy that had the position hadn't shown up to open the gym. And so at Warren Wilson the instructors lived on campus. That's how, that was part of their pavement of their salary. And so I called up Hank and I said, Don, isn't here to open the gym again. And he immediately said to me, do you think you could do a better job? And I said, well, absolutely. I sure could. And he says, well, I'm going to take care of that tomorrow. And so for the last few years of 00:48:00my time there, I was intramural coordinator. So when I got to do my student teaching at Reynolds, they allowed me to student teach in the social studies classroom and at PE

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

And okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

And so when I finished that year of student teaching, they were interested in me. I thought I was going to have a job as soon as I graduated in either social studies or PE, because they were, they had a position in each one open, but that was the year they decided that they wanted people with master's degrees.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Ah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. So I didn't get either one of those positions and therefore the rest, the rest is 15 years. So...

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Just as a bit of a topic still more to that, and a question we often ask these interviews, were there institutions, so in this case, educational institutions 00:49:00or county educational departments that either provided barriers or provided support as a lesbian woman. So that would mean anything from education. It could be social services, medical community. Did did you find that you found physicians that you felt comfortable going to, were there institutions that you felt you could share your full life with?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. So again, part two of this interview is going to be about that because it was a barrier. I don't, I want to save that portion.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Okay.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

About what happened there. I had, I did have something very traumatic happen during that time period with an institution, but while I was working these various jobs, trying to get my foot in the door, I was the first paid volunteer 00:50:00coordinator at WCAP Western North Carolina aids project. Up to that point, the buddy program was being run by, well, not right up to that point, but prior to that, it had been run by mostly the gay guys in the community. And my sister was a big part of that. She was already living here and they had their own volunteer orientations, and they were spending a lot of time in the hospital because a lot of folks were passing away. And so finally WCAP was new at that point. It wasn't an all volunteer community at that point. And not a minute too soon because there were so many folks here that they applied for a grant so that they could 00:51:00pay someone to be the volunteer coordinator. And I was the first person.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

You were the first one.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

But it was a halftime position. And it was a full-time job, of course.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Of course.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

But I loved it. I loved figuring out how a buddy program could be the most effective because there's 18 counties.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Sure. Not of real estate.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. I mean, there's, how do you get buddies from way out yonder, because that would be, they have to go through the training, even though those that did, I was, there were clients there. I was able to place them with a buddy, a client with a buddy in all those counties. Well, I don't think I could say I was successful with all those counties, but whoever did apply, and go through the orientation, but it was one of the most loving experiences, one of the hardest, and the heartbreaking experiences that I've had spent a lot of time sitting next 00:52:00to bedsides holding hands and some of the folks that passed were my friends.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Yeah. But it was a very fulfilling and WCAP, of course still has quite an amazing impact here. As a matter of fact, yesterday, I went to dining out for life, which I've gone to every single, every single year.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Wow.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Without fail. Yeah.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Well that sounds like we can dedicate a significant part of our next interview to that topic.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, and I, your question was basically the answer is yes. I felt like I could be out there.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

In that institution.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

But I couldn't be because I was trying to get a teaching job.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

I see.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

So it's always been this for me.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

It's tension.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

All the time.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Gosh. Yeah.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

That's why I haven't done an interview for oral history until this moment.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Well, we are very grateful that you have done this and we can't wait to hear 00:53:00some more of your stories in part two or maybe part three or part four?

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Well, I definitely have a lot of stories.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Well, thank you for your interview today. And I will close out our recording for now.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Thank you.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

Elaine Ferguson and Rachel Muir on this April 29th of 2022. And we will return for a second version of this interview sometime soon. Thank you again.

Elaine Ferguson, Oral Historian:

Thank you.

Rachel Muir, Interviewer:

And, see here.