Oral History with Diana Stumpf (2022)

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

There we go. All right. Thank you very much, Diana, for sharing your time today and the gift of your stories. My name is Amanda Wray and I'm working with Blue Ridge Pride. And we're just a project trying to gather stories. We're doing lots of really cool stuff with them, making lesson plans to go into K12 education. Honestly, just to show gay people doing regular stuff like buying houses and going about their jobs and that kind of stuff, as well as highlighting LGBT activism and some important public health and other kinds of issues. So we'll just jump right in. Today's date is March 3rd, 2022. I'm Amanda Wray and I am talking with Diana Stumpf. Tell me.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

That's a good German pronunciation. Yeah, Stumpf. Or you could just say Stumpf 00:01:00as best you can.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Awesome. So if you don't care, would you mind to say from the beginning when you were born, what your year of birth is and your birth date and maybe where you were born?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. I was born on the 18th of April in 1970. My father was in the state department so he was assigned to US embassies in various countries. And so I was born and I have a twin sister, so my twin sister and I were born in Dhaka, Bangladesh. My poor mother gave birth to twins in a small Catholic nun hospital in Bangladesh. We actually came a little early as twins do. My father was 00:02:00getting reassigned to Israel so they had thought that we would be in Israel before my mom gave birth but we came early so that's where we were born.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Did your mom talk about giving birth there? What that was like?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

She talks a little bit about it. She likes to joke about how she was embarrassed because they thought that we were these massive, huge babies because unfortunately in their country, babies are often born very underweight, very malnourished. And here my mom is having two babies and we were probably average size for an American baby, but to the hospital, they just thought we were huge.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

How big were you? Do you know?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I mean, we were both six pounds and something. Six pounds and something ounces. 00:03:00So to have two in the belly, that's a lot obviously. But for that country, that was pretty heavy.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

April 18th is my daughter's birthday.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Is it really?

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Really.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Oh, I didn't know that. Wow.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I saw that when I was looking at your intake form. I was like, oh, I love Aries. I have two Aries children actually.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Oh yeah. And it's right on the border. I forget. But I think it's almost a Taurus but I can't remember what-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Getting close. Getting close. Yeah.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So then Bangladesh, what happened after that?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well then my parents-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Did you all go to Israel?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. My dad got reassigned to Israel and we were there for a couple years. Of course, I don't really remember it.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Of course.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And then they did move back to the United States for a few years. My dad worked 00:04:00in DC. But then they were reassigned to Nairobi, Kenya. So we went to Kenya when I was almost seven and we stayed in Kenya until we were almost 15. And then we left Kenya and we went to New Delhi, India. We were only there for a year though. And then my parents decided to get divorced. So my dad stayed in India, and my mom and my sister and I came back to the US.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And where'd you all come back to?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

We actually ended up in Chapel Hill. My mom is originally from New Jersey, but she wasn't super close to her family and I don't think she really knew where she was going to go. But for some reason when she talked to friends and people at the embassy, Chapel Hill was this up and coming place to be. And somehow she 00:05:00just found out about Chapel Hill, North Carolina and decided to move there.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Oh, wow. That's pretty brave.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I know. I mean, it is pretty shocking now when I think about it. My mom doing that. She wasn't really used to ... In her generation, she got married young and had a family and she never really worked. She was married and so it was a pretty shocking thing for her to go on her own with no family help or anything.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Wow. So could you talk a little bit about spending, what, 16 years just basically living in other places? That's a lot of cultural literacy really.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

What's that like?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I think as an adult, I am so thoroughly grateful that I had that experience. 00:06:00When I was growing up of course, it was just my life. I didn't really think about what an amazing learning experience this is. It was just my life. But I'm so glad that I had that experience because when I came back to the United States ... And of course, unfortunately for me I came back at the tail end of high school, which is no fun for anybody. But my sister and I really did not fit in. Even though Chapel Hill was a very liberal, open-minded for a southern ... It wasn't a small southern town. But we just didn't know how to be Americans. I mean, we grew up having friends from all over the world, different countries. 00:07:00Never gave a second thought to, I have a friend and she's from India or she's from Iran even or she's from wherever. You never thought about it because that's just who you went to school with. Had friends that were black, friends that were ... I mean, it just wasn't a thought because we grew up in that environment.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And then we ended up in this typical American high school and it was quite a major shock to our system. We just didn't know how to ... We didn't grow up on the same TV shows or ... I mean somewhat the music I guess, but we didn't really have American TV in those countries so it was just hard to fit in. And it was very different because you'd see the black kids hanging out with black kids and the white kids hanging out with the white kids and the goths hanging out with the goths and the athletes hanging out with the athletes and it was confusing to 00:08:00us because in the small schools that we went to you didn't have enough kids to have cliques like that. Just hung out with whoever because you didn't have a lot of choices. So it was really a lot to adjust to. I can't say that I particularly enjoyed it per se.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I guess you were glad to have a twin.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Except when you're a twin and you're a high schooler and you're sisters, you don't want anything to do with each other at that point. No, we relied on each other a lot. Definitely a lot during that time.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Well, what was the school experience like abroad? Were you in English speaking schools? I assume that they were more embassy related.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. All the schools we went to were actually run by the American embassy so they were an American curriculum if you will. But most of the other embassies 00:09:00from around the world sent their kids to our school because other embassies, they just didn't have their own school. So everybody went pretty much to the same ... Anyone who was an embassy kid, if you will, we all ended up at the same school. So yeah, it was all English. But it was a very different ... I mean, even though it was American curriculum, I would say looking back on it that it was vastly different than ... Much more cultural and much more learning about the world a lot more than I think I would've ever gotten growing up in American 00:10:00school. Which is why I'm so grateful because I had to have those experiences of the different cultures and religions and ethnicities. I mean just every thing. I don't feel like I would've gotten that in an American school.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So even though it was an English speaking school, the curriculum very much reflected the diversity of the bodies in the classroom, which is really awesome.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yes. I mean that's how I remember it. I remember it ... Because I mean, we had kids from all over the world in our class. So you couldn't just talk about America. Most of the parents of course wanted their kids to go because they wanted them to learn impeccable English because that's obviously useful in this world. So that was the main reason I think they wanted to send their kids there. But because of that, the curriculum had to be pretty diverse and adjusted to accommodate.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Did you learn other languages while you were abroad as a young person?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I wish I could say that. The countries we were in all were previously colonized 00:11:00by the English so they primarily ... Other than their native languages, English was the number one language. Those countries are really difficult because they have so many languages and so many dialects. I mean they might have the prime ... In Kenya, the prime language was Swahili, but there were also hundreds of other tribal languages. And I mean, we learned bits and pieces, words here and there, but we didn't have to learn to speak it.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

You could probably say please and thank you.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Actually I became pretty fluent in German, but that's just because I took German classes in school. It wasn't really because ... I mean there were some German kids in the school, but I-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So was your dad German since your surname is German?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Our family ancestry is German, but my dad didn't speak German. My 00:12:00grandparents spoke it some, but really would've been my great grand parents that would've spoken it the most.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So Chapel Hill, then what happens? You graduate high school? Do you move around? What do you do?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I graduated high school and I pretty much knew through high school that I wanted to join the military. I don't know why. I had always grown up interested in the concept of being a warrior, being a soldier, being a samurai, whatever. All those different warrior type personalities and everything. It just always intrigued me, fascinated me. So I had always thought that I was going to end up 00:13:00joining the military. Actually in high school my bedroom was pretty much an entire Marine Corps recruiting poster because I was determined I was going in the Marine Corps. The US embassies when you're overseas, they are guarded by the Marine Corps. Marine Corps embassy guards. That's always been a Marine Corps responsibility is guarding the embassies. So I always remember if I would go visit my dad at the embassy and we'd see these Marines in their uniforms and they just looked so tough and sharp and professional.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Professional.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I was always so impressed by them. And sometimes they would ... The Marines all lived in this ... I don't know. I can't remember now if some of them were married or not, but at least the single ones, they would usually have a big house that they would live in. The Marine house. Sometimes they would have 00:14:00parties for the kids. Halloween parties. Because a lot of these countries didn't celebrate the same traditions that we did. So I just remember always being around them and being just so enthralled with how they were.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

So in high school I was determined I was joining the Marines. That's all there is to it. That's what I'm doing. But didn't pan out that way. First of all, my parents thought I needed to go to college. So I did. And I went off in Maryland actually. University of Maryland and promptly joined their ROTC program. But much to my dismay they only had the Air Force, which ... I mean that's practically not even the military right there.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

[Laughing] Stop . . .

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

But that's all they had so I joined it. But within a month I knew I didn't want 00:15:00to be there. I wanted to join the military. I wanted to go do something different. So without telling my parents I went and signed up in the Army. Because I went to the Marines of course, my first stop. Where do I sign up? And at that time it was very different. The military's a lot different now. They're pretty much all pretty equal when it comes to recruiting but back then it was very competitive. Each branch would say, "Oh, we'll give you this and this and this if you join." And the other branch might say, "We'll give you this money and this college education and this whatever." And when I went to the Marines, they were just like, "We ain't giving you nothing. You want to sign here? Sign here. Or not? Hit the door. We'll get someone else." That's how they were.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

There was no package, right?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

No. Which would've been okay to me, except that when they started talking about what I was going to do in the Marines because I was a woman, they started 00:16:00talking about things like administrative assistant or dental hygienist or things. And I said, "What? I don't want to be an administrative assistant. Are you crazy? In the Marines? No." And so I ended up walking over to the army recruiter who essentially said-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And this is in Maryland?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. And back then the recruiter said, "Well, you can almost do just anything you want." Back then you couldn't do combat, like infantry or something. But other than that, he said, "You can sign up whatever you want to do." So that's how I ended up signing up for the Army.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

How did your parents respond to that?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, my dad actually was I think pretty thrilled. I mean, he had served in the Korean War. He didn't do a career, but he understood military service and plus 00:17:00he got out of paying for my college so I think he was pretty thrilled. But my mom was not happy. Not happy. So my brother had already joined the Army. Well, he went to college and went into ROTC and then was in the Army. And she came from a generation where she didn't really feel like that's what women did. So she wasn't really happy about it. She said she already had one son and she didn't need me joining the military, but it was already done.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And how old were you when she said that? Do you remember?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

18.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

How did that feel? Was that over the phone? Are y'all in person?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Oh yeah. Oh no. It was over the phone, yeah. It didn't really bother me because my mom and I were never super touchy, feely, lovey-dovey close. So it never 00:18:00occurred to me that I might upset my mom, so I shouldn't do it. I was closer to my dad and I knew my dad wouldn't care so I wasn't really bothered by her saying that. I said, "Well, mom, you're right. You do have a son in the Army and now you have a daughter so there you go."

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So you and your dad stayed close even though he stayed abroad?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Did he come back stateside at some point?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

He did come back. I think we had ... He came back. I think it was right after we graduated high school he came back and he was working up out of Washington DC in that area so we were able to be closer at that point.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So you have a brother as well?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I do. I have an older brother. He's three years older.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And then you and your sister and is that it or do you have a younger-

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yep.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Nice.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Nope. That's it.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

All right. So you sign up and tell me where you were stationed and how long were you in the Army and how did that work?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, I went to basic training at Fort Dix, New Jersey in January so it was a very miserably cold several weeks. But I went through all the basic training and then I had actually ... I had signed up originally because in my mind I was thinking that I should learn some type of a skill that could help me later in life. So I actually signed up to be a mechanic. Because I thought it would be-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

My dad was a mechanic. . .

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Oh, okay.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It's super useful.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

It's super useful. Except nowadays with cars, I feel like-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Hmm. Yeah. Right.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

But I thought, "Oh, this would be good because I'll learn how to be a mechanic. So it's a job skill or just something that's good to know in life." But when I was in basic training, they actually had some recruiters come from military intelligence and they were specifically trying to recruit some of us into military intelligence branch. Which I wasn't really all about because I thought it sounded kind of wimpy to be intel. What is that going to be? But I was young and dumb and didn't know anything about the military and they basically fed me this whole line of how wonderful it was going to be. And I was going to get all this money, this bonus for joining and then the promotions. The promotions were really good. They made it sound like you were going to be 007 or something and racing around the world. So they sold you this whole story about what it was 00:21:00going to be so that you would switch over to military intelligence so I did. But it wasn't that.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

How so?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, it ended up being a job where ... I suppose it could have an aspect of being exciting, but not really. But it turned out to be a job where I had to learn Morse Code. And much to my shock that Morse Code even existed still. But I had to actually learn how to listen and communicate using Morse Code, which was one of the most painful learning experiences of my life.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So it didn't get easier with time? Is that what you mean?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

It did get easier with time, but the way the Army ... This is Army learning here. I mean it was 10 hours a day. We literally had people that went nutso 00:22:00because you would sit in this room and you would just listen to Morse Code for weeks at a time. Of course there was a process. It started off really slow and you started trying to write it down by pencil and as you got better it would speed up. So there was a long process, but essentially for two months that's all you did every day, all day was listen to these annoying beeps in your headphones. Yeah. Some of the young guys and gals kind of went a little nutso. Some of them had to get kicked out because they just could never get it.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Well, you mentioned earlier, with the Marines feeling like there were certain jobs you could have or not. Did you experience that in the Army? That things 00:23:00were gendered?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Not so much. When I went through basic training ... And the Army has on back and forth on this repeatedly over the years. But when I went through basic training it was all women. So your group was only women that you trained with.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

This is in the late '80s?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. This would've been ... Yeah, '89. And over the years actually the Army has gone back and forth. At some point they switched it to where the men and women trained together and then they switched it back. To be honest, I don't even know what they're doing now. Because they discovered there would be pluses and minuses to both environments. But I never really ... I don't know if I just 00:24:00wasn't as sensitive to it as maybe some women, but I never felt like I was ... I mean, there were a few moments in time in my career, but for the most part, I never felt really put down by the fact that I was a woman doing it. I mean, yeah, you'd have guys that would make comments, but I guess I never let it bother me so it never really stuck with me.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It didn't seem different than any other workplace you might have been in?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. I mean, it's a male dominated field obviously. But I will always say that for all of its faults ... There's a lot of people that don't like the military per se because of what it represents, but in my whole career, which I was in the Army for 30 years-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Wow.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Before I retired. And I will always say that the military quite honestly does, 00:25:00in my humble opinion, a better job than any other career in the country as far as diversity and equal opportunity and controlling any clear sexism or racism. Not that it doesn't happen under the table or you don't get a certain position and you can't prove that it's because you're a woman, but it probably was, but there's no way to prove it. But I really feel like because the military is a place where you have to rely on the person next to you for your life. So a lot of that ... I say petty, but I know it's not petty to some people. But a lot of those things you have to set aside. You have to because you have to work together as a team just to survive. So I might be someone who normally doesn't want to talk to you because you're Baptist, but if you're the Baptist person 00:26:00next to me that's going to protect my butt when the war starts, then I just got to learn to live with it.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Yeah. Right. So I assume that you moved up in the Army in 30 years. Tell us about that.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Well, I actually got a really incredible opportunity and sort of just by chance. I was not seeking it. But after I got all my initial trainings out of the way I was stationed in Germany and I had a fellow soldier that was stationed with me and he was trying to get into the military academy at West Point. And he was sending in an application for ... They have an actual ... They call it a preparatory school. So for people that don't get accepted right from high school into West Point, they have a preparatory school. And he was applying and it just 00:27:00happened to turn out that my lieutenant that was in charge of my platoon as we call it was a West Point graduate. Female West Point graduate. So she started encouraging me to apply and I really did not want to. I was not interested. I figured I wasn't going to get in anyway, but I just didn't want to do it. I really had no interest in going. But I needed to impress her because she was my boss. So I thought, "Okay, fine. I'll send in the application, but I don't really want to go."

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

But long story short, I got the phone call and the guy that actually really did want to go that had been applying all this time didn't get selected.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Oh, poor guy.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I know. And I felt terrible. But they called me. I'll never forget it because I 00:28:00was actually out mowing the grass. A very good Army private thing to do. And they said I had a phone call. This was before cell phones and email and all that stuff. And they called me and they told me to report to the office, that I had a phone call from the United States. And I thought, oh, that's not good. I'm thinking okay, somebody-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Somebody's sick or something.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. So I go in and I get on the phone and it's actually the West Point preparatory school and they said, "You've been accepted, but we need to know if you're going to come because if you are going to come, you have to be here in three weeks so we have to know right now. Are you coming?"

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

This moment you must make this decision. Wow. That doesn't sound like pressure at all.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

No. Of course, I'm this 19 year old kid. I don't know nothing. I'm just standing on the phone, looking at my lieutenant thinking, "Oh, okay, sure. I'll come." 00:29:00And that was that. And I had no idea what I was getting myself into at all.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I bet your parents were proud of that.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. I will say that did make my mom feel a little bit better. My dad was really ... Because I found out later because I didn't know this until I actually got into West Point. That his dad had wanted him to go to West Point and he didn't go. He just joined up, did his stint in the Korean War and then he just went to a regular college. And so my grandfather had wanted him to go to West Point, which he ended up telling me after I got in. I didn't know that before.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

That's awesome.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So what was West Point like? Was that still pretty egalitarian? You can talk about anything you want. I personally am very interested in the gender stuff.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

No, I appreciate the questions because otherwise I'd be stumbling on exactly what to say. But West Point was ... First of all I was thoroughly-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Just a baby.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. And I was amazed that I had even gotten in because I'm not ... West Point, the kids that they take normally are ... They're fricking valedictorian.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It's very prestigious.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Superstar fricking president of this club and president of that club and captain of the team and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, I wasn't any of that in high school. Zero of that. I mean, I did make it into the honor society because 00:31:00I had some good grades, but I wasn't top of my class and I did play sports, but I wasn't a team captain or I wasn't president of the debate club or ... I mean, I had none of that. So I couldn't even believe that I was even there quite honestly. I just kept thinking, "Somebody's made a mistake here. I don't know what's going on."

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It sounds like imposter syndrome, right?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah, exactly. But for me, I didn't struggle with ... Most of the kids that go there, they go right from high school to West Point. And they go right from an environment where, like I was just saying, they're gods and goddesses of their universe. They're the most popular kids in school. Not necessarily the richest, although probably. They come from well to do families usually. Not always. And so they're used to being on a pedestal and used to being the best out of everybody. And then all of a sudden they go to West Point and they're just one of a thousand other classmates that are just as good as they are. So they're not 00:32:00anything special at that point. And they're getting treated like crap because that's what happens your first year at West Point. You get treated like crap.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And I mean, there were some that just ... Now for me, I had no problem with any of that stuff because I'd already been through it all for two years in the Army. None of that stuff phased me. None of the military stuff phased me because I already knew it all. So when they're standing two feet from my nose screaming at me telling me I'm a worthless piece of doo doo, I'm just, okay, whatever. This is just part of it. But some of those kids, they'd never had anyone so much as raise their voice at them ever in their life.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Wow. That is a wide juxtaposition.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Very. So I was actually really grateful that if I was going to go to West Point, which had never been ever in my mind, that I went after I had some real world 00:33:00experience and I was a little bit older. I mean they considered me kind of old because I didn't come right out of high school. But I was glad that I had had those other experiences before I went. Plus I had already been a soldier so I already knew what it was like. What you wanted from your leadership. I'd already had experiences of leaders who really sucked and leaders who were really great. And I felt like that gave me a better ... I almost think they should not take kids right out of high school. They should wait. They should make them join the Army, do two years and then apply because then you can be a better leader because you know what it's like to be the person being led.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

So I feel like I got more out of the experience just because I knew what it was like to be at the bottom of the pile. But it was very unique because I ... A lot 00:34:00of the academics I really struggled with because, like I said, I was not a superstar academia in high school. I mean, I was fine. I mean, and academics there are intense.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I imagine.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And you don't get to choose. They throw all the hard classes at you. And I struggled mostly ... The only thing I really struggled with was academics. I mean, I didn't struggle with the military aspect or the physical fitness or any of that, but the academics were tough.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And so you'd go to class for certain hours of the day and then you'd have physical fitness requirements and other things.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Could you tell me about ... Your days were like . . . ?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. During the school year we would have breakfast formation, I can't remember, maybe 7:00 AM. Can't really remember that far back. I was there them 00:35:00'91 to '95 so it's a long time ago. So you'd have breakfast formation. Everyone had to be up and at breakfast and you'd go have breakfast and then classes would start. And it was similar to college in a normal college in the sense that everyone had your own schedules. You might have a class from eight to nine and then a break and then another class. It just depended on what classes you were in.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

So it was somewhat normal if you will for a college as far as that with the classes. But everybody had to go to lunch. So you would have the lunchtime break and then everyone had to form up and go to lunch. And then you have your afternoon classes. And then after the afternoon classes, there's some kind of physical fitness. So it depended on if you were a varsity athlete, if you were on any of the varsity teams, then you would be going to practice with whatever 00:36:00team you played on. They also had teams that were called club teams. They weren't considered varsity sports, but they were called club teams. So they were slightly less important, but sort of important.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Still team sports.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Still team sports. And then if you didn't do either of those, then you had to do some kind of ... They had intramurals where you'd play against each other. The cadets would play against each other. But there was always a physical fitness aspect of every day.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Did you do any of the club sports?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. I actually shockingly made the ... I made the varsity ... I made the softball team.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Nice.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Which was shocking. Because again, I'm not super duper athlete. I'm an okay athlete. But they liked me I think because I work hard. So I did actually make 00:37:00the team, but I only played my first year. And when I say play ... I should say, I only practiced with them my first year because I knew I was ... If I ever got into the games it was going to be only because two or three other people got hurt and they had to put me in. Well, I say that. I'm not just downplaying myself. I say that because they had a lot of ... I mean they had ... These women were recruited to come there to play. I mean they were top notch players and I was a walk on. So I was not going to be the first choice to go in the game unless somebody couldn't play for some reason.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And I made the decision after the first year that it's a huge time commitment just like anywhere when you play a sport like that. And it was hard for me because I was struggling with academics to put that kind of time into a sport where I was just going to sit on the bench every game. So I made the decision that I wasn't going to stay after the first year because it just wasn't that fun to sit on a bench every game and watch everyone else playing. I mean there were 00:38:00other bench warmers. I wasn't the only one, but I didn't want to keep doing that. And plus there were a lot of other sports that you could play there and I just felt like I wanted to try other things. So I tried lacrosse for a while, which was pretty comical because I was really bad. That's a brutal sport if you don't know.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I can't imagine.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I've watched people play it. Like hockey without as much gear or something. I don't know.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Gotcha. No.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Okay.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I got someone trying to call me. Trying to figure out how to ignore it. Okay. Anyway. It's a brutal sport. I mean because the women's lacrosse ... If you see 00:39:00men's lacrosse, they wear helmets and pads because they're technically allowed to have a lot more physical contact. So women's lacrosse, you don't wear any protection except a mouth guard because technically it's not as violent, but I'm here to tell you that all it means is that these women are sneakier about their violence because I got the crap beat out of me when I played. And I'd be looking at the ref like, "Did you not see that? Did you not see that?"

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Stab me in the gut with her stick. I mean, good lord. I mean they were brutal. Brutal. So I only played that for a little while, but it was fun while it lasted. And then I really got into a sport they played there, which you don't hear much about in the United States. It's very big in Europe. It's called team handball. And a lot of people when they hear handball, they think of when you're on a court and you hit the rubber ball with your hand. But this is actually a team sport and it's really fun, really fast paced, so much fun. But it's not very well known in the United States. It's very popular in Europe. And French 00:40:00speaking Canada, was really popular there. So we used to travel up to Canada to play these women that were high schoolers and they would beat the crap out of us because they were so ... But it was a really fun sport. It became my favorite sport. I mean I wish they played it in the US because it's fun.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So tell me about friendships and dating. Any of that happening while you're at high point?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, it's interesting because my first ... When I went to basic training and it's all women and I didn't have any real knowledge whatsoever of myself or how I felt or relationships. I'd never even had a relationship in high school. I don't know. It just never came to be when I was in high school. I went out on a few dates with guys and I went to the prom, which was a disaster. But I went to the prom ... I usually dated the nerds that no other girls would go out with because I was nice to them. Obviously now I know because I had no interest in really dating whatsoever. Although they were potentially madly in love with me because I was nice to them.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

But I never really focused on my attraction to women. I think I was naturally 00:42:00drawn to women. I didn't have a lot of guy friends, even though I'm more boyish than girly. But I really got more thinking about it because I somehow stumbled across ... There was this very small martial arts school that was in this totally scary rundown part of Durham. And it was run by two women who were both women black belts. And I understood it at the time, but they were together, but I didn't get that at the time. I just thought they were good friends, teaching martial arts. And they only had women in their school, which I loved because I just ... Not because I was attracted to the women, but because it's such a different experience when you can learn especially a physical sport like martial 00:43:00arts and you don't have that macho manly thing going around.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

It's so much better to learn in that environment. And I started going to their school because I always loved martial arts because I like military stuff. The whole warrior thing. And when I found out that there was an all women's school, I was like, "Yeah, I'm going at that." And I was still in high school. And my mom was appalled. She was appalled that I was learning martial arts, but she was mostly appalled that I was going to this scary, violent part of Durham to go to this school. I would drive myself because I had a driver's license. And I said, "Well, mom, I'm learning martial arts. That's part of the school. You have to be prepared to defend yourself when you walk from the parking lot."

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I'm sure that really made her feel a lot better about the whole thing.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

It was funny. It never really occurred to me. I mean, I think I knew in some level that some of these other women were gay. I was totally madly in love with 00:44:00one of my teachers. I didn't know. I thought she was just the greatest thing that ever lived because she was so cool and tough and she could beat the crap out of me. I used to ... [background laughter] if she asked for someone I'd always raise ... Oh, me, oh me. Get my butt beat. But I thought that was the greatest thing ever. I had no idea really what I was really thinking about.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Oh. Give me five seconds. My sister-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Okay.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

In the oven and she said I better take it out. Sorry about that.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

No problem. I'll turn our recording back on. Go for it.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

So on some level I kind of knew sort of about myself in high school, but I 00:45:00didn't really ever ... I didn't know. No one actually ... I didn't know someone that I ... Oh, these are two lesbians or these are gay guys. It just had ever come up in a conversation, although it's really fun now because I've stayed all my life now in touch with these two women that taught me martial arts.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Wow. I was going to ask that. I wrote that down. Do you still know these ladies?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yes. They are still my idols. They're just amazing women. They were doing martial arts when absolutely women did not do martial arts. And they're just amazingly tough, strong women that went through a lot of crap in their life. The one ... Kathy is her name. She had a really rough childhood, bad childhood. She 00:46:00grew up in DC. But she was a big part of a lot of women's rights movements up there. She did a lot with different publications for women's gay rights and for women's rights. They used to go to all women martial arts training camps where they would bring in women from all over the country that did martial arts. She's a big voice.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And during that time in getting gay rights and at a time when it was very scary to be that. And doing martial arts with men. She has a lot of physical ailments now and she always tells me that is because when she was always training with all these as men she had to always be trying to show how tough she was. She's 00:47:00like, "I did all this stupid stuff for my body just because I was trying to be tough. I'd be injured, but I wouldn't say anything." So they're just amazing. Yeah. I love them to death and I'm so glad I stayed in touch with them. They live ... I guess it's technically Hillsborough now. And they just recently stopped teaching. They'd been teaching until about three years ago I think. Three or four years ago.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Were they young women when you were in high school?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

They were I'd say in their ... Because they're in their 60s now so they were probably in their late 20s, early 30s and they're still together. And they like to tease me now about how they knew. "Oh yeah. We knew about you."

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Do you feel that you've had more than one person in your life say that to you? I've had other people say that. That they didn't know but other people seemed to.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Trying to think. I did have one good friend that she was the first person that I ever actually said, "I have to tell you something. I'm gay." And she was the first person that I actually said that to. And it was-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

When was that?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I'm just plugging my phone in. Let's see. Gosh, you're making me ... I should have thought about all this because it was such a long time ago. I guess it would've been shortly after I joined the Army. Because my dad lived in Maryland at the time. And her dad lived in Maryland because we knew each other from when we lived in Kenya actually. We stayed in touch. And she was a really good friend of mine. I mean, I realized later in life that I had a big crush on her too, but 00:49:00I didn't know it at the time. And I remember when we were visiting ... We were both visiting our parents so we were both in Maryland and this was ... I guess this must have been when I was ... No, I was already in the Army at that point. I might have been in the Army for a year. And I remember I went to stay at her house just for the night to hang out.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And I remember I had been telling myself all day that I was going to tell her and I was going to tell her, I was going to tell her, I was going to tell her. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And I kept saying, "I have to tell you something, but I can't tell you something." She would just be like, "What is going on with you?" And then she said, "Are you dying? Do you have a terminal illness or something? Is that what you're trying to tell me?" And I'm like, "No. No, I'm just trying to tell you that I'm gay." And she's like, "Oh. Oh. I already knew that. What?" She said, "I already knew that." So it was just funny 00:50:00because ... She wasn't gay, but she didn't have any problem. She's like, "Well I already knew that." And I had been spending the whole day trying to build up the courage to tell her.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So is that the beginning where you started to ... I don't know. Finally saying it, how did that shift what came next for you?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, it definitely was-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Because High Point comes after that, right? Like college.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. And that was very hard because the military at that point, you could not be gay.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Right. Don't ask, don't tell, right?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Everybody knew. It's not like they didn't know. I think people knew things, but it was a scary time because I was at that point where I was now interested in 00:51:00having a girlfriend or wanting to date, but here I am at West Point where I can actually literally get kicked out if they were to find out. So it's a pretty challenging place to deal with how do I accept this about myself in the midst of obviously the military and society already doesn't accept me. But there was always this underground group of us that knew about each other. And we all knew who was who and who was also gay. When you had free time, which wasn't a lot, you would end up trying to hang out with each other and times that you were allowed to leave campus, which wasn't a lot. But I had this group of people that we knew because ... And it's so funny thinking back on it now, because I haven't 00:52:00thought about this stuff in a long time. But one of the other-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Good. It's working.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

One of my friends who was actually one of my first girlfriends unfortunately, because she was a terrible girlfriend. Broke my heart, broke my heart, broke my heart. But good because it ended up for the best. But anyway, we've stayed friends. But she actually knew someone who lived off campus. A civilian man that worked at West Point as a civilian. And she knew him and he was also gay. So he lived right outside the gate practically of the campus. So we would often be sneaking out and trying not to get caught sneaking out when we weren't supposed 00:53:00to be out and sneaking over to his house. His little apartment he had and we would all hang out there. And then of course you have to try to sneak in again without getting caught. But yeah, those are funny times. I laugh about it because he told us later that he had a landlord. The landlord lived around the corner or something. And the landlord used to think he was this big stud because all these women were parading in and out of his house. All these female cadets. These young female cadets coming in and out of his house. Woo, the man. So that was fun.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

How did you know that those were the rules though? Is there something like an orientation that's like ... Is it just no sex period or is it same sex sex, that's the problem?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, yeah. I mean technically, yeah. There wasn't supposed to really be sex 00:54:00going on. Of course there was. But-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Everybody's 18 To 23.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah, exactly. The men and the women often ... You would know that they were dating and there was never really an issue with it. No one really ever got in trouble. If they got caught being in ... A male being in a female's room or something like that, that's a totally different story. But everybody found ways to sneak around and try to stay out of trouble. You weren't supposed to be dating someone that was outside of your class, if you will. If you were a senior you weren't really supposed to be dating someone who was not a senior. But it happened all the time and the cadre, they never really said anything about it 00:55:00unless someone did something stupid to get in trouble.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

But obviously if you were two men or two women that was not acceptable in any fashion. There was a big scandal because one of the women basketball players ... Because like I said, we all knew who each other was and we were all under the radar dating each other or dating someone or flirting with someone or whatever the case may be. You have a very small pool to choose from so you end up moving around from people to people. And it was a lot of times, oh she's on the basketball ... I was madly in love with this one female who was lower year than 00:56:00me. We called them classes there. First class, second class. I know it sounds very elitist, but that's what they said. But I was a sophomore and she was a freshman, which is completely not acceptable.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Because freshmen are the doo on the bottom of your shoe. I mean, they're barely allowed to be breathing for heaven's sake. But I just thought she was the cutest thing I'd ever seen in my life. And she was on the women's basketball team. So of course I became a number one women's basketball fan. I never missed a game. And we would go to the games and be cheering. We'd know who was who on the court and who was ... But unfortunately one of the women players who was actually one of their best players, she and one of the female coaches got caught together and it was a humongous, humongous scandal.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Somehow she managed to not get kicked out. The coach got fired. I guess they looked at it as if the coach was taking advantage of her so they weren't going to kick her out. But the coach got fired. And it became a very tense time because then it felt like we had to be even more careful because now there was all this-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Hyper-vigilance.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Yeah. So it was a very interesting time. And I did end up dating that freshman basketball player by the way, who I thought was so cute. Because all our friends were trying to hook us up. They would try to find ways to get us in a room together where we weren't expecting it or whatever. And I remember one time we ended up in another friend's room for studying or whatever and I came in 00:58:00and I didn't realize that she was there. Her name was Carrie. And then my friend whose room it was ... This was back when we had cassette players which you weren't allowed to have if you were a freshman. Only non freshmen could have cassette players.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

That's insane.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

She runs over and she hits the cassette player and then runs out of the room. And all of a sudden that song from The Little Mermaid, Kiss The Girl, starts playing. And of course me and Carrie are both horrified, because we're both uselessly ... We're both useless. Neither of us are going to make the first move. I mean, it was pretty bad. We were both too shy and embarrassed and horrified. And when that song started playing, we were both like, oh my God, oh my God. But we did end up dating after that. After she wasn't a freshman 00:59:00anymore. I say dating but dating there was not ... It was dating but it's just when you can see each other.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Yeah. Share a space.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. That's about it. Except on those rare times when we were allowed to get a spring break or a fall break or something like that, where you weren't on campus.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And so what happened when you graduated? Where'd you go?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

When I graduated, I was supposed to be going to Fort Carson, Colorado, which was my dream was to go to Colorado. And I had actually requested it and got it, which I was over the moon excited about. And then before I had to report to 01:00:00Colorado, I had a break. I had some time off. And during that time off I got a phone call and the US Army kindly said, "We're not sending you to Colorado." And I said, "Oh, so what are my other options?" And they said, "Ha ha. Options. You are so funny. No, you have no option. You're going to Fort Drum, New York." So, much to my dismay. I got sent to upstate New York in frozen tundra land as my first duty assignment after West Point. And my relationship with my cute little women's basketball player didn't last. She was still there because she was a senior then and I was graduated. And it just didn't really work out because we could never see each other and back then you didn't have the kind of 01:01:00communication abilities you have now.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Whole other ball game.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. You had, we've got mail, you've got mail. We had AOL, which I still use AOL account. So it just didn't really ... It just kind of fizzled out. It wasn't a big heartbreaker. I mean, it was sad at the time, obviously. I'm sure I thought it was horrible. And then I got to Fort Drum, New York and ... Again, I wasn't that brave or aggressive when it came to dating someone. It was still a very nervous time. The military did not-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It's early '90s, right? '93, '94. Somewhere around in there.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. And I had just started my ... Yeah, I had just started my career so I was very scared about anything like that. But I did end up meeting a woman. She was 01:02:00not in the military. I didn't really want to risk dating someone in the military. And I met her ... How in the world did I meet her? I think I met her at a bowling alley where she was ... No, it was at a gas station convenience store or something that was close to where I was living and I used to stop there a lot because I was not a cook so I would stop there and buy frozen food or snacks or drinks or something. She always worked there so we just got to know each other from seeing each other there. And then we started dating. She had a son and that was my first experience dating someone that had a child, because I had no desire to have a child. So that was interesting.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And yeah, we stayed together actually for ... I finished my commitment. Because I graduated West Point and I did my time that I was required to do. And then I decided that I was going to get out, which is what brought me to Asheville. Because I thought I wanted to do something other than the military because I'd been doing the military since high school. So I thought, oh, I should do something else. But I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I just wanted to do something different. And my mom was living in North Carolina at the time and my sister was living in South Carolina. So I didn't really want to necessarily live in the south. I was really wanting to go out west. But I thought I should stay close to my family, which now I would do differently. But anyway.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Because that was the time to be away from them actually right?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Exactly. Yep. Exactly.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

You don't know that when you're 30.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

No. I know. And I thought I'd already been gone because with the military, I barely saw them. So I thought, oh I should be closer to them. Not that we were ... Like I said, my mom and I had never been super touchy feely, but it just seemed like, oh, I'm supposed to be close to my family. So I ended up looking around like, well, where were I want to go? And that's when I was doing research and I said, "Well I love the mountains. So I should look in the mountains." And back then, which was 2000, Asheville was still a pretty sleepy, little, not a big town, but I had been reading about how beautiful it was and the mountains and that it was getting more popular and that it was going to probably grow and it would be a good place to have a job because it was getting popular.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

And so I went and visited and I thought it was just this beautiful part of the country, the mountains, the river, everything was wonderful. So I said, "Well, 01:05:00if I have to be in the south, I guess I'll move there." And I didn't really know what I wanted to do still. So I ended up my very first job in Asheville was with the Grove Park Inn. I went and got a job with their landscaping crew. And then just to make extra money, because that sure as heck, wasn't making a lot of money I started working as a bartender with them as well, which was very comical because I didn't barely drink so I really didn't know how to make anything. And then the other bartenders would be getting mad at me because I'd be cutting people off because I didn't like it when they were drunk. And the other bartenders would get mad because that's when they said they made their most money is when people were drunk. And of course ... Oh sorry. Did I cut you off?

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Nope.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Trying to shut the door because that dog is barking. So they would get mad at me but I was a goodie two shoes, straight laced Army person still and I was like, "By God, that's not the right thing. We're not going to take advantage of these people because they're drunk and take their money. That's not what you do." And they would just get so mad at me like, "You go work somewhere else. You're ruining our tips."

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

So that was my first attempt at a civilian job. But I couldn't do it. I missed what I had loved about the military. The comradery and the excitement and the feeling that you were doing something bigger than yourself and you were a part of something and you were helping people. And that's how I looked at it. I know that's not how everybody looks at the military, but to me that's what it was. And so I ended up joining the Asheville Police Department. Which is very common obviously for military people because it's a paramilitary job. So I joined the 01:07:00Asheville Police Department and I was a police officer for not too long because I ended up feeling like it might not be my personality and I decided I'd switch over and I joined the fire department. So I actually became an Asheville firefighter. A firefighter with the city of Asheville. And that was-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Did that last longer? Did you stay with the fire department for a while?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well I had planned to, but after 9/11 happened ... So when I left the full-time Army, I had joined the North Carolina National Guard just to keep my time and my career going. So I was with the Asheville fire department after 9/11 the guard 01:08:00was getting called up left and right. So my guard unit there in Asheville ended up getting called to duty. And so I left with them. And then after that the wars of course just got worse.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

And did you all go New York or where'd you get called up? Where'd you go?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

We went to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. We were supposed to go into Afghanistan at the time, but we ended up not going. We ended up being stationed to stay in Fort Bragg because we were a maintenance company. And so they kept us there to do maintenance on the equipment for the other units that were coming through.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

So then what? So how long did that last?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well I-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

[Sneeze] Excuse me.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I stayed on. I volunteered to stay on duty and I ended up being on duty for or two or ... Yeah, two years. And then after that, I ended up getting an opportunity-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

[Sneeze] Excuse me.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:Oh, bless you.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Sorry.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

The national guard has a certain number of people that are full-time workers. Most national guard reserves are just one weekend a month type of thing. But they also have a certain number of people that are on full-time orders because obviously you have to do stuff all the time. But there aren't very many of them because it's a small group. But I had the opportunity to apply for one of those 01:10:00jobs and at that point I decided I'd already done so much time in the Army that I might as well go full-time again and work towards a career and a retirement. So I was only technically a civilian for a short time.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Two years?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

About.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yep. But I always still called Asheville home because even though with the national guard ... It's a North Carolina national guard. So you get assigned within the state of North Carolina. But of course I was always being sent away from North Carolina. But whenever I came back to North Carolina, first, I was working out of Asheville. I did do some time in Raleigh and some other parts of the state. But I always still called Asheville home. I always kept a place in Asheville that I came back to when I could.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Well, and you essentially had a partner here, right? When did that happen?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, so the-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

If you want to talk about that.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. The woman that I had dated in New York, she actually came with me when I moved to Asheville. Her and her son. Which at that time I wasn't expecting her to do. Which sounds mean, but I didn't think that we were going that far, but anyway. So she came but we didn't end up staying together. But she's still there. We still talk. We still stay in touch and she's still there. But after that I dated a few people, but then I met someone. She actually lived in Hickory 01:12:00and I met her through a mutual friend and she also had a daughter. I was always like, why am I dating all these women with kids?

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It's because you said you didn't want kids. That's why. You said that out loud and the world was like, all right, let's help this woman with . . .

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I know. I mean, I like kids, I just never had the desire to have my own or to raise them. But I did end up ... Her daughter was only three when I met them.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Wow.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. So we dated for about seven years. I did eventually get shipped off to Iraq for a year and we were together and we stayed together. And then I came back from Iraq and I was sort of messed up but I didn't know it at the time but I was mentally not there.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

So I went through a period where I was not a nice person. I was an asshole if you will. And I didn't know. Even though she kept telling me, "You need to go see someone. There's something wrong." And of course I'd say, "No. There's nothing wrong. I'm fine." And then I'd sit in the back room and just play video games all day. Sounds like such a cliche, but that's what I did. And so I didn't know at the time. I had no idea that I actually had something going on. Because the Army at that time, that was very early on and they really didn't recognize or have a plan for that kind of issue. It's gotten 100,000% better now but back then at the beginning, they really ... Because we had never had war since Vietnam really. So there was not a lot of knowledge about how to handle when you came home.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Reentry.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean physical injuries, of course they had systems in place for that. But the-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I said reentry. Like reentering regular old-

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yes. And see that was ... And that always was and always will be harder for the national guard and reserves because they come back and they leave a war zone and then the next day they're back in their house with their family and their civilian job and they're expected to-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Yeah. Just be like regular.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Exactly. Whereas if you are an active duty soldier, that's your full-time life. So when you come back from Iraq or Afghanistan, you go back to your base where all the resources are there and all your buddies that you fought with are there and your support network is there and it's all there. But for reserve component 01:15:00soldiers, they come back and they're expected to just jump right back into where they left their life off and it's just not that simple.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

What would you think would be a good ... As someone who's done this in various phases of your life actually, to be away and come back, what's a suggestion you have to try to ease this process a little bit, especially for the national guard?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, they definitely, to their credit, they did learn and they did start to understand that that was an issue. And so they did start having free counselors available. They started having a period of time where you would come back and they would have family ... They would work with the families before you came back so that they understand what to expect. And they would work with us before 01:16:00we came back. Like this is how your life might be a little bit ... When you get back, you can't be bossing your wife around because she's been running the show since you've been gone. So things like that. So they started putting these support networks in place. But it's still more difficult. It always will be, I think.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Well, you said that your partner was good to encourage you to try to find some help. What worked for you? What support did you take on?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

I lost you for a minute but I'm back.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Okay.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Sorry.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It's okay.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Can you hear me?

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Yeah, I hear you.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Okay.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I asked what support did you find for yourself? You said you really ... Some of 01:17:00these infrastructures weren't in yet and that you were dealing with your reality by playing video games. Which seems like a completely normal response to the inability to process your reality right? So what did you do to support yourself? What was your shift, your transition there?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Well, I think more than anything as simple as it sounds, it was just time.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Oh, I think I lost you again.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Oh.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

There we are.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. I don't know. It keeps cutting in and out now.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

But that's okay. It might be a sign of the universe that an hour and 40 minutes is good for us.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah. I mean, did you want to try to continue at another time or?

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

I would like to. I have a lot more questions to ask you, actually, Diana. I'm very excited. You've done such a lovely job telling stories. I wonder if you could ... Just, if we could finish with this one question. What was the support that you got for yourself? Did you go to talking therapy? You said time was very important. But what else self care did you do?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

My dogs are driving ... Go on. Go on. Okay. So really, I think a big part of it 01:19:00was just the time. And then my partner I was saying, the woman I was with at the time, she was patient to the nth degree until she couldn't be anymore because I was so bad and she had a child and I was not good. She put up with it as long as she could and I have no ... Mostly I still feel just guilt over how I was and how I treated them, because I didn't know how I was doing. So as bad as it sounds ... Or this is not meant to sound like for some pity party, but when she decided to leave me, because she couldn't take it anymore is when I snapped out of it. I mean, not overnight necessarily, but I-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Of course not.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Something turned in me that made me realize, whoa, this is ridiculous. You got 01:20:00to get over this. I mean, I never went to therapy and I never really ... I didn't read self-help books or start doing Buddhist chants or anything. I don't know. It was just like something switched. That her doing the at made me realize that I was being stupid. Not stupid. That it was time for me to deal with it and to move on and to become a better person again. So I don't know. I mean, it sounds corny because I don't know. It really was just like the switch went off in my brain and I was-

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

It sounds like a pretty radical thing to happen, right?

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Yeah.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

The one place that is your safety or whatever now becomes turned.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Unfortunately we couldn't ever get it back. I tried. I tried but there comes a 01:21:00point in relationships where, whether it be one person or both, like I said, the switch turns. And for me the switch turned to make me realize what I was doing wrong and for her, the switch turned to, I can't go back to this. So I tried all the corny win her back moves and stuff, but none of it worked.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Well, at least you tried.

Diana Stumpf, Narrator:

Again, we're still really good friends. And I still talk to her daughter. Her daughter's this amazing kick butt, awesome woman now living outside of New York City. She's freaking amazing. So I'm still very much in their lives so that 01:22:00makes me happy.

Amanda Wray, Interviewer:

Awesome. I'm going to stop our recording here.