Oral History with Chris Bridges (2021)

Drew:Okay. Yeah, I think this is working. Okay. Okay. Thank you for sharing your time and the gift of your stories. So we can take a break or end the interview at any point. My name is Drew and I'm working with the Blue Ridge and Amanda Wray to record oral histories from elders and members of the LGBTQ community. With your permission, all stories will be archived with special collections at UNC Asheville and available as audio, video, or typed transcript files. You will be contacted to review your typed transcripts in advance of publication in case you wish to make changes, corrections or name restrictions.

Yeah. So today's date is September 19th, 2021. I'm talking with Chris. He uses he, they, and she pronouns, who was born in Boone, North Carolina. So how would you describe yourself, Chris?

Chris:I guess, the main adjective to describe myself overall is queer. I've always been mainly, I guess, sexuality speaking, I've always been gay, attracted 00:01:00to men and my pronouns, of course, I'm gender fluid. So my pronouns are he, they, and she, interchangeable.

Drew:You don't prefer any one over the others? Like them all?

Chris:Yeah. I mean, I guess usually when I'm introducing myself to new people, I say they, them as my preferred. So, yeah.

Drew:Okay. Well, first you can describe where you grew up. How long have you lived? What was it like?

Chris:I lived in Boone until I was seven, but I really grew up in Asheville. Yeah. I lived up in Weaverville up until I was like 11. Then we moved to Florida for a year, but then came back. So, mainly I've always been here. Went to high school in Reynolds. Yeah. It's always been like a cool little town. Cool little 00:02:00city. It's always been, always had its quirks, things that kind of set it apart from anywhere else in the state or in this area for that matter.

It wasn't until I was like, I'd say middle school and like early high school, when they started gentrifying it, I guess. So haven't been a fan of seeing that go down, but the people who have made this city what it is are still here. So I still enjoy it. I definitely have a love, hate relationship with this city sometimes, but I'm glad that I grew up here. I can't really think of anywhere else that I would have preferred to.

Drew:Yeah. Well, maybe you can describe your childhood a little bit. Parents and stuff.

Chris:Yeah. My parents divorced when I was, well, I lived with both of them and 00:03:00then my parents divorced when I was seven and my dad took me and my sister, who is a little over a year older than me, we've always been very close, down here to Asheville. And we went to a Christian school up in North Asheville, which we both hated. It was terrible. Nothing fun about it. The only fond memories I have was that sometimes they would cater like Chick-fil-A and Urban Burrito for lunch.

So, yeah. Didn't make any friends there. That was when I started to get the first like inkling that maybe I was different, but I didn't know how, and obviously, the ways in which I would be different were very much frowned upon, so I wouldn't even consider those possibilities to apply to me, because it would just be too much. I was already going through enough at the time with the divorce and everything. So, yeah. And my mom moved down to Greenville because it 00:04:00was slightly closer to Asheville than Boone was and that's where she was able to get a nursing job, because Mission Hospital is not all that great. But, yeah.

Then, like I said, my dad got another job down in Florida. We moved down there for a year and then didn't go very well for him so he moved back up and he got a new job here and I started going to Cane Creek instead. That was, no, it was actually in Florida was my first introduction. Well, my first being in public school since I was seven, so, and I was 11 at the time so that was pretty refreshing, even though it was a charter school and we had to wear uniforms anyway.

I got to Cane Creek. I mean, I was happy to be in like a real school finally. That was something that I had oddly enough fantasized about for like my entire, 00:05:00from like being in second grade to being in sixth grade. But yeah, I came to Cane Creek in seventh grade and yeah, it was middle school. I didn't have any friends. I didn't know anything about myself really. Went through plenty of cringey phases that lasted like a few months at a time. And then when I got to Reynolds in high school, that was when I started actually making friends. That was when I started coming out of my shell. And yeah, I guess that about does it for childhood, I think.

Drew:Yeah. So coming out, how'd that go for you?

Chris:It was messy, definitely. I was still living with my dad at that time. Yeah. I was living with him throughout all of high school and all that. So, 00:06:00couldn't say anything to him about it, but it was about freshman year that I came out to my friends. I had started to realize, things had started to become more clear to me around like ages 13 to 14.

Drew:Puberty.

Chris:Yeah. And then, yeah, I thought I was bisexual just because, I don't know, maybe just kind of a way of easing myself into the truth of the matter, but that's how I came out to my friends when I was 14. But by the time I was, by sophomore year, I was just fully understood as gay. Didn't really have to do a whole second coming out either. My friends just kind of begin to understand it too. And then I joined theater. So that was pretty much the, yeah. That pretty much sealed the deal, I guess.

And as far as, yeah, I didn't come out to my dad until like halfway through 00:07:00senior year due to some extenuating circumstances that I won't really get into, but he seemed accepting at first, mainly because I had to do it in front of other people, but kind of slowly pulled the rug out from under me, I guess. But if I went on about my dad, we would be here all day. So.

Drew:We can be here all day. I think it might be good to talk about him at least a little bit.

Chris:A little bit. For my own sanity, I think I should reframe. I already have a therapist for that.

Drew:Yeah.

Chris:But as far as being gender fluid, it was something that looking back the signs were like always there. I don't know. I guess the signs were always there for me being gay too, but that was a long time ago. So I can't really go that 00:08:00far back at the moment. But as far as being gender fluid, I remember like my friends in this one group chat that I've been in on Instagram for like over a year, had to put up with plenty of rants from me about how my jawline is too masculine and my chin is too big. And I know I started to feel like my voice was too deep and I didn't really know why.

And it wasn't even a, I don't know. The realization itself didn't come slowly either, strangely, on like my sexuality. It just kind of hit me like a train. I vividly remember just being in the shower one day and then it just hit me. I was like, oh my God, I'm gender fluid. I don't know what prompted it or anything. I mean, I have ADD, so just general brain noise, I guess, just kind of coalesced into that one thought.

Yeah. I came out to you first and then, Drew, my boyfriend. And then I came out 00:09:00to my friends afterwards and then my sister and then my mom. My dad still doesn't know and I think it's better that way because he would absolutely have a brain aneurysm and he and I aren't talking so it doesn't really matter.

Drew:How did it go, coming out to everybody?

Chris:It went well. Yeah, everybody was very accepting. So, yeah. Nothing. No dramatic stories to report from there.

Drew:Yeah. Is there any significant memories you have related to your childhood?

Chris:Oh, that is a whole can of worms.

Drew:But you said you can't remember a lot of like gay related stuff.

Chris:Well, at the moment, I just didn't really want to get into it because it was just so far back. A lot of it has to do with middle school, which is a 00:10:00period in my life I don't like thinking about it at all.

Drew:Yeah. How many have any crushes as a kid that said you didn't realize for crushes, like a lot of gay people do?

Chris:Oh, I guess so. I don't know. I never really developed any like long-term crushes until like a friend of mine, when I was 14. Yeah. I feel like I've gone through many phases of having a crush on like a male friend of mine and then I just slowly start to accept that we're better office friends. So, but yeah.

I guess I did have a lot of like passing, just instances of like noticing a guy and having a feeling that I didn't quite understand. It was never really obvious to me. Yeah. I don't know. Like I said, my coming out journey is more of just 00:11:00falling down a flight of stairs.

Drew:So what was your first visit to a gay related place or event, like going to Christian school, growing up Christian, then you know?

Chris:I vividly remember it. It was a, so I ran cross country in high school and we had this ...

Drew:That was a gay event?

Chris:In a way. Well, in many ways, yes. But we had this event, we had this meet. It was on like the last, it was always on the last Saturday of September, which would happen to fall on the same day as Blue Ridge Pride every year. It was a meet that we would have at ACA. And yeah, it was 2017. It was 2017, was the first time I went, because by the time I was already driving.

So I went there. I just told my dad that I was going to hang out with some 00:12:00friends, but I was actually going to pride and yeah. It was, I mean, I knew what I was in for, but at the same time, it was kind of a, I don't know, I guess I didn't gain any like realizations or anything from it or any like new perspectives, but it was relieving to be in that space, I guess, is what I gained from it.

Because I had tried, well, I don't think I was in theater up until that point. Well, yeah, I was in theater one, which was not quite a totally gay space yet, because it was just with people who wanted an easy elective. I wasn't in any productions yet or anything like that. But so, yeah, that was the first place 00:13:00I'd ever gone. It was just totally inundated with queer people just everywhere. So yeah, it felt good.

Drew:Was theater really that gay? How many people in theater would you say? What percentage of people in the upper levels of theater are queer?

Chris:A good number. A good number. I mean, that's how I met my first boyfriend. So.

Drew:Yeah.

Chris:Yeah. I don't know if I could give an exact percentage. I didn't exactly hang out with everybody. We had like the one camp of people. Well, we had two camps that people, and I was in the second one, which would go out, like go to our own after parties and talk shit about the other camp of people. So, yeah.

Drew:You were in track and cross country. Do you feel like that was an accepting 00:14:00space for you to be gay? Like do you feel like everyone was pretty friendly and cool about it?

Chris:In their own way. In about as much of a way that teenage boys can be. Yeah. Yeah. They accepted it. I didn't get bullied for it or anything, but they also didn't really know how to be accepting of it. They didn't really know when the jokes were in weren't appropriate. I guess you could put it that way. Yeah. And I have heard from ... I shared something on my Instagram story a few days ago about, like just about homophobic jokes or something. And somebody that was like two grades below me said, yeah, that's pretty much the XC team. And I'm like, oh God, has it really gotten worse? And she's like, yeah, it's pretty bad. 00:15:00And I'm like, oh Jesus.

Drew:That's horrible.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:I mean, I would say a lot of sports like that, like any kind of school event where people leave the school, like on a bus and then go somewhere else, can get a little gay.

Chris:Oh, we did have like a week long camp in late August, like right before school started every year. And shenanigans would usually go down there.

Drew:Like what?

Chris:I'm not exactly going to get into it.

Drew:Okay.

Chris:Even though they didn't totally respect me or know how to, they're still my friends. We were all still kids and I want to respect their privacy.

Drew:Yeah. Well, who was your first kiss with?

Chris:It was with one of my friends on the cross country team. We were, it was, I think it was one day. I think it was one day. It was after track practice. Cross country. Track. We were all kind of in the same group anyway, because we all ran distance events during track season. So, yeah. The seasons didn't really break us up or anything. So when I say cross country friends, it was a year round thing. But yeah, it was one day after track. I remember this was like this spring of 2017, because I wasn't yet driving. So, I was waiting for somebody to give me a ride home. And we were at like a friend of ours apartment complex and she had a pool there and we were going to order pizza and we were all going to like chip in some money for it.

But then she said, because this friend, this male friend of mine who was there had like, whether it'd be in like truth or dare or just under any circumstances had like kissed most guys on the team, even though he like literally had a girlfriend. It was pretty funny. And she was there too. And so, that friend who we were all with realized that he hadn't kissed me yet so she was like, Hey, if you two kiss I'll pay for the pizza. So, so we did for free pizza and it was pretty good pizza.

Drew:It worked out?

Chris:Oh, yeah.

Drew:Do you ever a wish maybe you had a more romantic experience. Or are you happy with that?

Chris:Honestly, I'm happy with that. It makes for pretty funny stories, because when I hear about other people's first kisses, they say, oh, it was with some 00:18:00like really trashy dude out behind a gas station or whatever, like while we were all smoking menthols or something.

Drew:Yeah. Do you ever feel like, I know a lot of gay people feel like this, where I feel like robbed of like a teenage experience, like a normal teenage experience. Do you ever feel like that?

Chris:Maybe a normal teenage experience perhaps, but I don't think I would have really wanted that anyway. I still had fun. I wasn't really ostracized out of any social groups when I was in high school. So I definitely still had a good experience.

Drew:You felt like AC Reynolds was a good, a decent place to be gay? Not terrible?

Chris:Decent. Yeah.

Drew:Better than some other schools [crosstalk]?

Chris:Out of all the schools in the county system, definitely. It would probably be the best one. Like North Buncombe, no. Erwin, no. Inca, absolutely not. TC, 00:19:00no. I definitely would've gotten thrown ever some bathroom stalls in there, especially if I try to be on the cross-country team. But oh and yeah, absolutely not. Asheville, probably. I have a good number of queer friends who went there and they don't have any complaints as far as I know. But, yeah. Out of all the county schools, I guess Reynolds would be the best option.

Drew:Yeah. How about Cane Creek?

Chris:Absolutely not. No. Like the fact that it was a middle-school is already bad enough, but it was all of the worst people from Reynolds and TC, like combined. If I hadn't gone to that Christian school, it would have been the whitest school I've ever gone to.

Drew:Yeah. Sounds pretty unpleasant.

Chris:Yeah. And in fact, now that I'm thinking back, now that I'm thinking back on it, I don't remember a single person of color at that school, the entire school.

Drew:At Cane Creek?

Chris:Yeah. You'd look across the cafeteria and it would just be paler than sour cream. So.

Drew:It sounds pretty accurate. I was going to ask another question about Reynolds. If you would have come out as gender queer in high school at Reynolds, how do you think that would have gone for you?

Chris:I don't know. I don't know if I ... I'm not sure if I really would've wanted to because I was living with my dad at the time. So even if I did come out, I don't know if it would really matter because there'd be no way to express it. I wouldn't be able to really live it out the way that I can now, with like dressing androgynously or dressing femininely or wearing makeup or anything. 00:21:00Those all would have been total no goes in that environment.

Maybe I would have been ... I probably would have been more comfortable doing it if I was under a different household, like if I was living with my mom or something. But yeah. It's not really a possibility that's ever been clear to me. And, yeah.

Drew:So you talked about your dad not being very accepting. What about your mom and your sister?

Chris:They've been accepting of it. Yeah, I was, yeah. To be honest, I was a bit hesitant to come out to my sister at first because she and my dad were pretty close at the time and I didn't want information getting from there to there. It's not that I thought that she would snitch on me. I just thought that she wouldn't be able to keep it. Yeah. But she turned out to be very trusting. Very 00:22:00trustworthy, I guess.

Drew:Yeah. Same with the gender queer stuff?

Chris:Yeah. I mean, by that time I told her she was already living here, like she had already moved out of dad's place. So.

Drew:Yeah. And your mom's been cool about it?

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:Yeah. Sometimes you don't expect it out of older people and they end up surprising you.

Chris:Yeah. Well, my mom was actually one of the, I didn't even come out to her. She was just one of the first people to cut to the fact that I was gay.

Drew:Yeah.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:And so when you came out as gay to her, was she like, yeah, I know.

Chris:I didn't come out to her.

Drew:Oh, never.

Chris:She just was able to cut to it, I guess.

Drew:Yeah. She's your mom. She paid attention.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:Never had a girlfriend. Never anything like that.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:what about extended family?

Chris:They don't know.

Drew:Yeah?

Chris:I don't really have many extended family members. Both my mom and my dad were only children. So, and yeah. And I don't have any, like I don't have any extended family on my mom's side. I only have a little bit on my dad's side and they're all just related to my grandparents on his side. And so, they're all very Southern, very conservative. So I just don't want to get into that mess with them.

Drew:Yeah. Understandable. Yeah so did anyone in particular impact you as you were growing up as gay and queer, like anyone that inspired you?

Chris:I definitely remember, like the music that I listened to up until I was in 00:24:00high school was very closely monitored by my dad. I grew up in a controlling environment with him and it was only around once I entered high school that that had stopped mostly, at least with the music I was listening to. So, I was discovering a lot of artists who were open about their queerness, open about their sexuality. And I think those were like the biggest influences on me growing up.

Drew:Anyone in particular?

Chris:I think my first exposure to any queerness in music at all was with Sufjan Stevens, particularly Predatory Wasp of the Palisades. I remember I had a, like I started collecting vinyl my sophomore year of high school and I remember Illinois was one of the first ones I got. I got it for Christmas that year. And whenever I would play Predatory Wasps of the Palisades in my room, I would just 00:25:00be hoping, I would turn it down just a little bit, just hoping that my dad wouldn't hear anything.

Drew:Yeah. Who else?

Chris:There were a few others. Car Seat Headrest. The impact that Twin Fantasy has had on my life is absolutely immeasurable. Who else? There were a few others. Tyler, The Creator. I vividly remember listening to Flower Boy for the first time and just feeling like vindicated.

Same with Brock Hampton. That summer, I remember hearing, the first Brock Hampton song I ever heard was Star. And that's the one where Kevin Abstract says that famous line, I just gave my head. And yeah, I instantly felt seen, I guess 00:26:00you could say. Yeah. God, just, yeah. Kevin Abstract was definitely a huge influence on me as well, in my formative years with that.

Drew:Yeah. He was very bold to come out, especially as a rapper, when that's not ...

Chris:Yeah. Definitely.

Drew:There's still a super big taboo to be a gay rapper and plenty of rappers have bars that are homophobic to this day. but there's plenty of other genres like that, like mental and stuff like that.

Chris:Yeah. And now rappers are getting spots removed from festivals for being openly homophobic, like Da Baby.

Drew:Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's like the world is turning around, maybe at least a little bit.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:So moving away from that topic a little bit. Do you have or know of any 00:27:00experience with segregation in the LGBT community based on like race, gender, class, or other things? Like queer people treating other queer people not so well just based on certain other factors?

Chris:Yeah. There is a lot of gate keeping. And I was talking with this to my friends, like a few weeks ago, because we were talking about bisexual erasure and people who are non binary or like me, gender fluid, not knowing if we're like really trans, like if we really should be included in the conversation at all. And my observation on that was in an effort to like create our own societies, separate from CIS society, we've accidentally ended up or 00:28:00unconsciously ended up mirroring some of the prejudices of it, where like you have to be fully one thing or another. And yeah.

Yeah. I've seen a lot of ... I think the trans community is definitely where the most gate keeping happens. Mainly with like, mainly on the internet where people can, where people just kind of go to see how much they pass or how much they don't pass and just get absolutely torn down by other people. So, yeah, I guess that would be where I've observed it most.

Drew:Yeah. It's like a hierarchy of like how well you fit in some sort of like gay or trans ideal, even though we're gay and trans and we are already away from 00:29:00the straight ideals, where we are making new ideals for our own community. We're supposed to be happier in a way from those ideal.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:Yeah. What do you think is more important for LGBTQ people to focus on rather than like recreating these hierarchies? Like what do you think we should actually be striving for?

Chris:Just being open. I mean, that's the whole, like being open and accepting of everybody, like that was the whole point of it. Wasn't it? That was the whole point of creating this space for us originally. I mean, there's always been some gate keeping in it, but the ideal of what we've set out for is for it to be a safe place for all of us, because we don't feel accepted in mainstream society or straight society, CIS culture or anything like that. So I think it's just 00:30:00kind of an understanding that like we've all been excluded from like the main facets of society and understanding that we need to welcome people in, rather than gate keeping people.

Drew:Did those tendencies maybe keep you away from some aspects of like talking with other queer people or going to queer spaces or anything like that?

Chris:Definitely, definitely. Because I still, the fact that I still use he pronouns as part of my interchangeable pronouns, I feel like that kind of excludes me from the community, I guess. I don't know.

Drew:Yeah. I think that most people would be cool with that. I understand being afraid of reactions. It's kind of weird because most to that stuff, that kind of weird behavior, is just on the internet rather than in real life.

Chris:Yeah. But I mean, it can have real life implications, I think.

Drew:Yeah.

Chris:Like I remember seeing this article written by a trans woman about how call-out culture affects trans women in particular, like the queer community online has a tendency to just completely excommunicate anybody who has even the slightest missteps, completely cutting off anybody for even just messing up slightly. We've seen this happen with Contra Points, Lindsay Ellis and many other figures within the community.

Drew:These are both YouTubers, by the way.

Chris:Yeah. I've seen it happen with other like kind of micro celebrities and this article written by this trans woman said like for us, as trans people, our social net is everything because we don't have anything else. For us, social death is real death. So it kind of calls out how there's nothing progressive about ostracizing trans people for just messing up and being human beings. So.

Drew:It kind of makes you feel like they're just waiting on an opportunity to attack people they don't like.

Chris:Yeah, definitely. Just a way of asserting superiority over other people within the community.

Drew:Yeah, definitely.

Chris:Which is definitely another big problem that ties into it.

Drew:Yeah. Avoiding this, like getting away from the terrible things, what are 00:33:00things about the community that you love? Like what are things that bring you satisfaction in the community and just in life in general?

Chris:I think the biggest thing that I've seen that come from it, that I've really loved, is sharing experiences. Because even the most, like even the most divisive parts of the community are always making little lighthearted jokes about like, oh, when you're growing up and this happens and stuff like that. And I think that's a big part of what really connects us, is how we've grown up and like how we've had to exist in a CIS society and just kind of how we all have those universal shared experiences between all of us, like coming out and realization and confusion and questioning and all that. And yeah, that's brought 00:34:00me a lot of, I guess, satisfaction, vindication, I guess, to see that.

Drew:Yeah. People making it feel like you weren't crazy for doing something, that it was just pretty normal, that like a million people have already done it. It's like [inaudible] in a lot of ways.

Chris:Yeah, definitely.

Drew:So what's your experience in particular with like the Asheville LGBTQ community?

Chris:I've only had positive experiences with them. Yeah. Just in Asheville. I remember going to a, like over the summer, it was in late June, going to a protest in west Asheville for ... It was mainly a anti-prison anti-policing.

Drew:It was the Stonewall anniversary. Was it not?

Chris:Yeah. Yeah. That's what it was. And just like meeting all of these different, super cool, super accepting people. And there was this after party afterwards at a secret location nearby. And yeah, I remember everybody just like first arriving and just sitting around this campfire and everybody just talking about and just general queer stuff and stuff that we all happen to share interest in, which is another.

Like I said earlier, sharing experiences was a cool thing in the queer community. I should have added on sharing, like we all love the same music and the same movies typically. Even if our tastes deviate in some regards as individuals, overall, we have like ... There's just like this blob of media and 00:36:00movies and music that is universally understood as like exclusively for us and by us.

Drew:I think of like Lady Gaga.

Chris:Or like a lot of PC music and bubble gum based like Sophie and ARCA and ...

Drew:Hundred Kegs.

Chris:Yes. And a lot of movies, like, well, movies are typically more divisive between us. Like you ask pretty much, like you can go into any queer space and start throwing stones and you'll get like two or three throws before you hit somebody who absolutely despises Call Me By Your Name with every bone in their body.

Drew:It's like how some people find the gay subtexts in movies that wasn't even meant. It wasn't even meant to be that way. But so many gay people agree that it's gay.

Chris:Yeah. Like Social Network, for example.

Drew:The Facebook movie. Yeah.

Chris:Yeah. Yeah. And back to that party that I was talking about, I just remember feeling, I don't know, feeling free in this little space, like this little corner of the world just meant for us. It took place in like this huge backyard that looked more like a post-apocalyptic anarco commune. Well, yeah. Anarchist commune for queer people. It had like these little shacks and everything. The backyard was like full of trees and lights and all of that. And it was just, I don't know, it just felt, it just kind of felt like we were in our own little world and that's a beautiful thing.

Drew:Yeah. I mean, you're not 21 yet, so you can't go to bars. But are you 00:38:00excited to be able to hit the gay bar scene in January?

Chris:Yeah, definitely. I mean I'll definitely be asking around for which ones, which places are preferred because I don't want to go somewhere where just a bunch of bridesmaids are going to show up and gawk at us like zoo animals.

Drew:Yeah. Do you like drag?

Chris:Yes.

Drew:You do?

Chris:Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Drew:You excited to go see some dragsters? Yes or no?

Chris:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've already seen a few. I remember seeing, I think it was 2019. Yeah. 2019 Pride. Where me and my friends went and we saw some drag performances, which were very, very cool, very fun. And of course, you and me went to a Drive in Drag in Raleigh.

Drew:Yes, we did.

Chris:Saw a bunch of Drag Race stars. Lady Bunny showed up completely out of nowhere.

Drew:It was crazy.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:It's like, that's why I love drag. It feels like exactly what you described, like a space just for us. And it's like things that we like that most people wouldn't even understand.

Chris:Yeah. Like straight people can watch Drag Race on TV all they want, but we are at the shows. We are the ones who go out and buy tickets to see these people.

Drew:We tip the dolls. We do at all.

Chris:Yeah.

Drew:Yeah. I really feel like that's the greatest thing about drag. It's just like a drag queen could be super out of the box and weird and do things that like straight people will never understand. And then the gays will love it. That why I feel like artists like Bjork and Lady Gaga are so popular with gay people.

Chris:Definitely, definitely.

Drew:It's like we understand them.