Oral History with Jerry Connor

Tina White, Interviewer:

And what just happened? I had missed that. Okay, we're going to try this a second time. Tina didn't press the record button apparently. Today's date is October the 25th, 2020. My name is Tina Madison White, and I have the privilege of talking with Jerry Connor. Jerry was born in Lexington, Kentucky in 1946. He moved here to Asheville 35 years ago. Jerry, how are you?

Jerry Connor:

Fine.

Tina White, Interviewer:

If you're describing your story to someone that you're sharing your narrative, where do you like to start?

Jerry Connor:

Well, I usually, when people ask, they always speculate as to when they knew, 00:01:00excuse me, when they knew they were gay. And I really, growing up had no inkling that I was gay. I didn't know anyone, I wasn't exposed to anyone that was gay or that was openly or that we knew of as being gay. So, I never identified myself as that.

I always was very active, I took dance, I sang, I was in talent shows. And I guess in retrospect, when you look back, you think, "Well, you should have known that you're a little more special than just the average straight person." But I just chalked that up. And I mean, I dated girls and went out, mostly they were my dance partners and when I went to college, I was involved in everything.

Of course, I was a theater major and I should have known then too, but I was very naive when it came to gay. The only thing that I knew of gay was that stereotype and that sort of dress up as a drag queen kind of thing, which I didn't really even know that much about, but that's what I perceived it as.

So, I went through everything, got married, had a child, opened up a restaurant, and during the course of all of this my wife, never really bonded as a mother. So, I wound up bringing my son to the restaurant with me and taking care of him. And then we were more like roommates instead of a married couple. And as such 00:03:00over the period of a year, I was so busy with the restaurant. There's an old phrase saying, "You're married to a restaurant and you certainly are." And our marriage as a couple became less and less until the day of Mother's Day, she asked for a divorce.

And it came out of the blue for me, because I was so involved in the restaurant, and I came in the next day and my staff knew something was wrong. And when I told them, they all just kind of went about and the next day they came up and said, "Well, we're going to take you out and just forget about things." So, we closed up that night and we went out and the next thing I knew, we pulled up at this huge warehouse building, and it was a gay bar in Charlotte. And it was a 00:04:00mega bar that had a piano bar, it had a disco, regular bar, lounge. It was really something, and I had never been in that kind of an atmosphere before.

And everyone that I had to work for me, they were all waiters. I had a couple waitresses and one in particular Madelaine was from France. And so, I danced with her the whole night, but I have the best time, the music was the greatest, and I came in the next day and they all greeted me on my matre d' whose name was Jerry also, came up to me and said, "Jerry, we've clocked you before you've clocked yourself." Well, I didn't know what that meant. And I later did find out, but I was so naive about the gay community. I didn't realize that half of 00:05:00my wait staff were gay. I just thought they were doing their job, and I hired them, put them into work and that was it.

Well, then that weekend I'm sitting at my bar and this guy comes up and sits down and we enter into a conversation. And my matre d' comes by and nudges me and tells me, he says, "Jerry, he's hitting on you." And I said, "What? I didn't know what that meant." And so, we proceeded to continue talking and we decided that we would meet up and go to the performance and the theater the next weekend, which we did. And then we came back to the bar and came back to the restaurant and I opened up the bar and we had a few drinks and a few more and got tipsy. And then I asked him if we'd go back to the house and have a 00:06:00nightcap. And he proceeded to kiss me and I've gone, "Well, gee, I'd never kissed a man before."

This was kind of interesting. So, we went back and we started to have a few more drinks. And the next thing I know, he passed out. I went upstairs, went to bed, got up and came down. The next morning, said goodbye. He went out and I never saw him again, but that was my first gay day. So, that's how it started. Well, then I started thinking to myself and of course, we all do retrospects and I'm going "Well, am I really gay? Or maybe I'm BI because I did enjoy being with my wife and sex with my wife." And so, it wasn't until later until I met a few people and had some intimate relationships that I realized that, "Well, there 00:07:00was something about the masculinity of another man that really excited me."

And I never was drawn to feminine men, only masculine men. And so, I started thinking to myself, "Well, maybe that's it." And then over the course of time, I wound up selling off the restaurant and everything in Charlotte and moving my restaurant and creating a new one down in the Eastern part of the state. And that was where I really came out in the sense of my own self acceptance. And I said, "I was like a kid in a candy store," because there were Marines 00:08:00everywhere. And I must have met up with all the gay Marines because I said, "What in the world is going on here?" But then I realized that a lot of it was, so many of them weren't really so much gay as they wanted to be intimate, and they wanted the same thing that I was looking for was that masculine intimacy, but with no label on it.

And that's where I started realizing that, there was a big difference and a lot of what we look at from each other as gay individuals that it's like a cacophony of different types and shapes and everything else. And that, well, we're under one umbrella just because you're a particular type, doesn't necessarily mean 00:09:00that you have to be with someone else that's not that type or whatever, or vice versa. And so, sometimes I think we tend to berate ourselves and make it sound like we're being very prejudice against each other. When actually it's just a matter of what your likes and your tastes are. The same it doesn't matter whether you're gay straight or whatever.

So, at that point, I did happen to make a number of friends and need a lot of people at that time. And it was funny because the gay bar there was owned by a drag queen that was known throughout North Carolina, her name was Brandy Alexander. And she used to own a beauty shop with another drag queen called 00:10:00Charlie Brown, who was very famous. Charlie Brown moved to Atlanta and was big in the scene there. And Brandy moved to Jacksonville and opened up a place called Friends. And driving by from the outside, you wouldn't know that it was a gay bar. It was just a building, and the entrance was in the back, because the Marines back then, if you were caught, you were drummed out of the Marine car.

And oftentimes if you drove in, they would have off duty under-covered MPs sitting out in the car, writing down license plate numbers and corresponding them to any Marines that run bays. So, the Marines used to park a lot over and come through the woods in the back and the entrance was in the back, so nobody 00:11:00can tell you went in. So, it was an interesting club, an interesting meeting, so many people there. And but I moved from there and well, actually I wound up getting custody of my son.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Before we go there, if I just ask, in that period when you were discovering yourself, you were just finding your vocabulary or your voice. I know when I finally accepted myself, something went off in my head where I suddenly realized how dark and lonely the first part of my life had been. And it was like I was walking in daylight and you haven't said anything suggesting the same experience, but I was just curious. Did coming out or finding yourself, did it give you access to a part of yourself?

Jerry Connor:

No, not really. I said because I came out later in life, a lot of people talk about how they came out so early, or they knew when they were five years old, seven years old or whatever that they were gay. I had a great life. I mean, my life was so full of doing things that I didn't feel like I missed anything. Because a lot of people say, "Well, you missed out on such." I didn't really, and I don't feel like that when I found myself that I was replacing something, what I did was, in coming out and finding myself, I use that as adding to my life's experiences as opposed to opening up or shedding light, so to speak.

So, I didn't have any remorse or anything along those lines. What I did do is I found like, "Gee, this is a new chapter." And so with that new chapter, I embraced it, opened up and I said, "All right, let's be. I've always been me, now, I can understand why the me was a little more flamboyant than what I thought was really me, and now I understand why it was me." And that was it.

So, I've always been artistic and a bit off the top. And now I had a feeling, I said, "Well, most gay people have that artistic ability, or some form somewhere that they excel in." And mine just happened to be pretty much all of it. So, 00:14:00that was it.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Okay. I'm sorry. So you're talking about your son.

Jerry Connor:

Oh, oh, well, when I separated from my wife and divorced, she took custody of my son. Dan was the psychologist that I was talking about who dealt with children. He worked with kids from disturbed backgrounds and stuff. He also established one of the first LGBT youth groups back then. And a Youth Outright was developed later on, but as a result of Dan, that was the first groups that met, and they met over at the Unitarian Church on a regular basis. And the funny thing about everything, everyone thought that Dan and Joan were just such angels, because 00:15:00here's the straight couple and they were being the champions for all the gays and lesbians, enjoyed everything. And then they came out and we found out that well, Joan came out to let everyone know that she actually was a lesbian and was married to Dan.

Well, then Dan came out that he was gay. So, now we had this gay couple, who were gay and lesbian, who we all thought were straight.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Oh, my God.

Jerry Connor:

And came out and they had a gay son. So, really, it was kind of like a shock, but it was like, "Oh, this is great." So, that was the interesting part of it. Unfortunately, as we would have with most organizations and groups, Asheville 00:16:00went into sort of a decline back in the 90s. And we had gone from being per capita number three in the nation, in terms of gay population versus total population to where, when AIDS cropped in, we lost a lot of members, but a lot of people moved away. Jobs were not here. And so many people moved out of Asheville. So, we sort of went into a decline, but also a decline in the number of organizations and things along that level.

And C.L.O.S.E.R. was one of the statistics. And they tried to keep it going for a long time and it got less and less and less people coming, because now is the 00:17:00age of the internet, everything else. you didn't need to have an organization like that because you could go online and meet somebody, or you went to the bars and whatever. So, all these things now that wasn't the vital organization anymore, and a lot of other organizations were created. So, it finally, I think in 2000, somewhere in there, it was down to maybe, they would have meetings of 10 or 15 people, and that was it. And they finally decided to just display and that ended that era.

And it's funny, because a lot of people who remembered it or moved back to Asheville often asked whenever having to close or is it still around or whatever. And the odd thing is it's still floating around on the internet, 00:18:00because it seems like nothing disappears. And there were pages of things that were listing it. I think there was one, I forget, Rainbow something was a group that had tried to create a business page with organizations and stuff many years ago. And they went to funk, but their listing was still floating around. So, if you pulled it up, it would show it, but it's never been around at all that time. But that was said, I know, gained back now I've backtracked a lot. But when I first moved here in the '80 and it was mid 80s, I think there were eight gay bars in Asheville.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Wow.

Jerry Connor:

There was a gay movie theater. There were about four books stores, and let's 00:19:00see, and then along with everything else. And then some of the gay bars started merging and others started closing and new ones open up. And there was a big one that was like the mega gay bar. It was where Jubilee Church is now on Wall Street, and it was called Craigs. And the inside was just all this elaborate teamwork and sculpturing and stuff. And that was the big gay bar. And it was owned by two gay fellows, one of the straight artists was involved with it as well. I think she was a partner and they opened it up and it ran for quite a big 00:20:00deal, and then they closed up, and then Scandals opened up and that became the big show bar. And there was another big one called Trax, and Trax was the mega bar. I forget what the name of the places now, I think it's gone through 70 different changes, but it was-

Tina White, Interviewer:

Was it Trax, T-R-A-X?

Jerry Connor:

Yeah, T-R-A-X. It's where, I'm trying to think, like where the Latin, it became a Latin place and then something else. It's between, if you, let's see, how do I describe it? If you're coming up, what is the street next to... You drive right 00:21:00by it, the edge of it became a lesbian bar later on called Hairspray. And on that, but it also has been a number of other bars, but there's this huge building right there in the middle as you turn off of Patton Avenue and continue up to Haywood, it's on that side. Anyway, that was Trax. So, you literally could come downtown, go to Trax, walk down the street, go to Scandals or walk up the street and now Henry's was the oldest bar in town.

And it was located just on the other side of the library and you could go up there. So those were like the three majors and then down where the Stake Park is now on Cherry Street across the street, I think it's Duke Power or something place to park their trucks and stuff, but that was called 45 Cherry.

And before 45 Cherry was called the Cockatoo. And that was slightly, never had a sign out front. So, unless you do... When I first came, a friend of mine told me about it, and was going to meet me there. I drove around for an hour and a half, trying to find it and couldn't find it. And finally, I had to get to a phone and call because back then you didn't have a cell phone, and so you had to find a payphone somewhere at a gas station. And so, I called that I was trying to find the number and had to call their information. And I said, "Where are you?" And then they told me, and I said, "I've driven by you, I don't know how many times, so I never going to you.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Hysterical.

Jerry Connor:

But that was back during a period where you didn't really actively put your name out there. And a lot of gay bars in the smaller towns and stuff for that way. I know when I lived in Jacksonville, there was a big gay bar in Jacksonville, and 00:23:00it was called Friends. And because of the military and everything, it was this huge building that set back from the highway. And you didn't know what it was except the gays and anybody that would come to it. And you had to drive around the back and the entrance was in the back. So, people couldn't see you going in, and that was for the Marines. And most of the Marines, they wouldn't park there. They would park on the other side and come through the woods and come that way because a lot of times they would have undercover MPS sitting in the front who would write down license tag numbers for anybody coming in, because that was before don't ask, don't tell, and you could get expelled from the military for being gay.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Wow. What was I going to ask? You're describing all of these bars back then, and 00:24:00now we're down to, I guess-

Jerry Connor:

Well, now we're down to, well, when they were open, we had, Oh Henry's, Scandals, and-

Tina White, Interviewer:

Banks is sort of-

Jerry Connor:

Well, those aren't gay-

Tina White, Interviewer:

They're gay friendly.

Jerry Connor:

Yeah. And they're not gay dance club bars, so to speak.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Got it.

Jerry Connor:

I mean, the major gay bars are far down, are Henry's, Scandals and that's it. There was another one called Buddies or whatever, but it was straight, gay, straight, gay. So you never really knew what it was. And what's happened now just before all of us shut down, was the emergence of, instead of the mega gay 00:25:00bars, of straight gay friendly bars, that catered to gay clientele, along with others with special nights or special drag shows or things like that.

But they didn't specifically list themselves or identify themselves as a gay bar. Some are gay-owned, or very gay-friendly. And I think for a matter of just economics, it was better for them to be able to be this. And then with this world of all inclusivity of being that way. So, that's what you have now, but you also, we're in an era now that during that period, when I was going out to 00:26:00the bars, and it was the big show bars and the big things like that, those days are gone.

And they really crashed with the internet and with things like Grindr, and all these apps on your phone that you no longer had to go to the bar to meet somebody. You could just put yourself out there and say, "Well, they're five minutes away over in such and such," and meet them there instead of meeting at the bar. So, the fun days of dancing and doing all of that, which was a side dish, so to speak, of going out, the main thing was to go hook up with somebody.

That went by the wayside, and even in Atlanta, the great mega bars in Atlanta 00:27:00that everyone used to go to, are no longer there. So, thus 2020, you've got the advent now of these smaller bars that are, instead of everyone going to one or two or three big bars with hundreds of people in there at night, now you've got 50 people here, 25 people here, whatever, they're all spread out.

And then they just mix and go, they'll have a favorite hangout and that becomes their hang out. And they're all looking at it in a different way, a different view. And I think in part that's also part of the younger, sad, that's not like our sad. They go out and dance, but not like we did. And I don't really think that dancing to them is as big a deal, music is, but they're not really so much 00:28:00there to dance as they are to listen, to drink and converse. And I think that's why.

Tina White, Interviewer:

You mentioned several bookstores and when I think of bookstore, I think they're adult bookstores, or they're are-

Jerry Connor:

Well, they were the places that you could get gay magazines and books, and they did have the little back rooms too, but that was primarily it. So, it became illegal that you couldn't find... If you wanted to get... Back then there wasn't the internet and all the porn that you could pull up. So, if you wanted to read a pornographic book, or if you wanted to see a magazine or something, then you had to go to a specific store that dealt with adult magazines. And so, we had a 00:29:00number of those here.

However, North Carolina passed a law. And part of the reason why they disappeared was because it was illegal to sell the magazines. And they kept raiding and the poor store manager... There was one that was on Patton Avenue and they kept raiding it, and put him in jail. And he would have to pay a fine and get out and everything. And then because North Carolina passed a law and finally they came and padlocked and they closed it down.

Then years later, they reopened, they found a loophole to open up around it, and they opened up and there were a couple that opened up going out to Henderson Road, and a couple of other places there.

Tina White, Interviewer:

And was that... Let me ask, what was the law against all pornography or was it 00:30:00focusing on gay.

Jerry Connor:

Well, it was pornography period, but they really emphasized gay pornography. So, and that was during the period too, when they were doing all the entrapment of, there used to be a lot of hookers that went, no more than hookers, but guys that would walk around, and the big cruising area was called the Cage, it was the federal building, which then became the Grove Arcade, was the circle that goes around it that became called the Cage. And after the bars or whatever, everyone 00:31:00would come out. And it was kind of like a who say hello and just kind of wind down. And you drove around the Cage. And a lot of times there would be guys out there looking to be picked up and they would pick them up and go off.

Some of them were hustlers and others were just looking for somebody to spend the night with. Well, the police started doing stakeouts and so they would lure people in by acting as one of the hookers or one of the cow boys, and would be out there and as soon as anyone stopped to talk about going home with them, they would arrest them.

And then they would publish their names. They would have these stains and then they would publish their names in the newspaper. And they had huge listings. And then they had a problem up on the Parkway, same thing. A lot of people would 00:32:00meet on the Parkway, and so they had big stains on the Parkway and did that. So, that put a big damper and stuff. And the biggest thing that affected the bars back in '80 or '90, so I guess, once I get my dates from, was North Carolina passed the alcohol law. And up until that time, you only had to be 18 to drink beer. Then they raised it to 21. Well, that really affected the bars because a lot of people had to wait until they were 21. And then they really came down on the DUIs and drunk driving.

And there was so many people that would go to the bars and get drunk and drive 00:33:00home at night and get caught. So, they all had deep blue eyes and would then have to carpool to get in, or take cabs to get to the bars to come in. And so since so many of them lived out of town, that's what started making that, what do I want, less attendance at the bars for a period of time there in the 90s. So to say, you had a big decrease, that's what I was trying to say.

Tina White, Interviewer:

I'd be curious if you could contrast two things. One, there's a lot of tension between some groups here in Asheville and the police. And I imagine you had tension back then between the community and the police, but was it a completely different or how would you compare them?

Jerry Connor:

No. I don't really think... No, we never, I don't think so.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Oh, okay.

Jerry Connor:

And the odd thing was, it wasn't until much later that we ever really heard about people being harassed or there being animosities towards gays. I mean, it was always out there, but I mean, but you'd never knew of anybody that had been molested or whatever, or had been attacked because there were gay. There might've been an incident here or there, but it could have been anything. And it wasn't that big, it's gotten more pronounced, if I think, within the last 10 years. But back then, it wasn't. And actually, I think we had a fairly, even though it was technically illegal and the sodomy laws were in effect, Asheville, 00:35:00they took a blind eye. And they really, I mean, we had two North Carolina gay prides here in Asheville. So, we had two state gay prides held in Asheville.

And that was no big deal, except to the religious right. I can't remember if it was the first year or the second year [crosstalk 00:35:35], both of them we had big parades in Asheville for the gay pride. And then the next Sunday, the religious right had their own parade condemning all the gays. And it like this, 00:36:00this was sodomy, you're condemned to hell and all these horrible signs on their parade. And it was all part of Ralph Sexton that his church, a big church here in Asheville and he was the big instigator of it, but they had floats with each church, Baptist church and all these others at it, letting you know that that's who they were. And they were all brave in their Bibles and everything else.

Tina White, Interviewer:

What year was this?

Jerry Connor:

I can't remember... Was it '80? I'll have to look back and figure out. It was either the first or the second state gay pride we had here.

Tina White, Interviewer:

I have to look that up.

Jerry Connor:

But that was it. We knew it was really something because they didn't waste a minute. As soon as a thing was over with the next week, they were right there.

Tina White, Interviewer:

And the other one I was curious about going back to the bars for a minute, 20 and 30 years ago, how integrated or, and I don't know if I want the word integrated because minority populations are so small here, but what was the reaction of if... How comfortable, welcoming, would a bar feel to someone who was a minority back then?

Jerry Connor:

Oh, there was no big deal. I mean, because there were a lot of black gay drag queens. And they were all over. So, I mean, it didn't matter. You see that's what, I guess, because I'm older, I don't understand where this younger group is coming from. Because there really wasn't the discrimination at all in the bars 00:38:00for blacks or Latinos. They were gay or lesbian, they all came in. And I mean, nobody, excuse me, nobody acted any different. I used to judge pageants. In fact, I judged Miss North Carolina Pageant and a couple of bake ones, as well as local ones. I don't mean there were black entertainers, there were white, a lot of the national known drag queen entertainers would come in and they had a huge following.

So, I mean, if you were black or Latino or went into the bar, you weren't discriminated against at all. So, that's why I say, today I hear so much about how they feel not accepted or whatever. And I don't know where they're coming from. To me, if you feel like you're not accepted, are you out there 00:39:00volunteering? Are you out there going to places and then coming back and saying, "Well, they didn't accept me in." Or are you just making a random statement because you don't feel like you are.

And I think to me, that's a lot of what it is more than the other. With every organization that I've ever been in. We never discriminated against a black or a Latino. If they wanted to come... Now, I mean, you didn't go beat the bushes for them, but then again, we don't beat the bushes for anybody. We say, "Here we are, if you want to join us, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too." But we're not exclusive of white group of people.

And that's why I have a hard time living in Asheville, understanding that philosophy. And I don't see it so much in older, as I see it in younger kids. 00:40:00And I think that the younger kids have created their own sense of disenfranchise as opposed to anything else. I know I was at that one conference that we had, what was it held by the, who was it held by? What's the two groups here for North Carolina, Equality-

Tina White, Interviewer:

Equality North Carolina?

Jerry Connor:

Yeah. And what's the other group? Oh, okay. It was Equality North Carolina. They had a big conference held at, not central [inaudible 00:40:52], the college.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Probably?

Jerry Connor:

No, up here.

Tina White, Interviewer:

ULCA?

Jerry Connor:

No. The community college. What's our community college here?

Tina White, Interviewer:

I don't know.

Jerry Connor:

I can't figure that, anyway. And it was held there, and they had all these different segment groups and people had their tables set up and everything. I know we had one there and [crosstalk 00:41:28] Pride had one there, and there have been discussion groups and stuff for all this, "I don't feel safe. I don't feel this. I don't feel that. And I don't feel included and everything." And again, they were the younger college groupies. And I asked them and I insist well, and that was one of the things when people would bring that up and I'd look at him. And I said, "Well, have you tried to join?" And it was like, "Well, I didn't feel like they wanted me." And I'm going, "Well, if you're going to go 00:42:00into something with that attitude, then you're walking away before you've ever tried." And I think that's what a lot of it is. But again, that's just me, but that's my observations from today versus when I was active out there.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Let's go way back. Were your parents ever aware?

Jerry Connor:

Well, I never came out to my parents. However, I think my mother knew, and the reason why I think she knew, well, for one thing, it's funny. When I moved to back to Jacksonville, I met a fellow there, and he was a city planner and he was as gay as you can imagine, he was six and a half feet tall, screaming queen, 00:43:00would snap his fingers in a minute and just tell you whatever. But let me tell you, he had the respect of every construction engineer, everyone else, because he knew his business. He was smart as the Dickens. And they all respected. Nobody ever made fun of him or anything, but he would come in and he could do, "Girlfriend," that kind of thing. I think it was like boy, but he was such a great guy.

And his lover was a Marine. And so, they had this unique little relationship. Well, my mother fell in love with him. She just thought he was the greatest. And we would have them over for a Sunday dinner or something, both of them. And we'd all be there around the table and stuff, and my dad even thought he was cool. 00:44:00But we never mentioned being gay or anything and nothing was ever said. When I moved away, when I closed down the restaurant in Jacksonville and moved away, I would get notes from my mother, and then she would send newspaper clippings. And in there it was things about being careful, about how Aids and everything else and I'm going, "Okay, she's being a mother. I think she knows, but she has never really said."

And that was that way. I didn't feel like some people feel they have to tell their parents in order to be complete.

Tina White, Interviewer:

It didn't destroy your intimacy?

Jerry Connor:

They feel like they have to do it. I didn't feel the need to. My father was a macho Marine, but he also had a soft side to it. And I didn't feel like, maybe out of sight out of mind, why did I need to destroy that or to bring that up? It 00:45:00wouldn't prove anything. It wouldn't make our relationship any better. I don't think it would make it any worse, but on the other hand, I didn't feel like I had to prove anything at all. I felt like they knew I was just undecided. I need to stop for a minute, I need to use the rest room.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Sure.

Jerry Connor:

The disjoint came about later on why there was a lot of friction about creating one, but it was always brought up the fact that we spend all this money on a place that really didn't serve a purpose more than just somebody's office.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Does anyone have archives of community connections?

Jerry Connor:

Lisa Morphew may have some. She was an editor either before or after me.

Tina White, Interviewer:

I think I met her briefly. [crosstalk 00:46:06].

Jerry Connor:

She lives over here. But she may have, and to be honest, I cannot remember the name of the two gals from UNCA to save my life. That may have Simon. One of the other fellows that was involved with it for the longest time died. And I don't think he has any, but Mark Goldberg may have some, he was involved that when I got involved with it, he was the one that helped us with printing it. We would go over and use his equipment and stuff to do the layouts, and we would go over and do cutting and pasting and laying out in his facilities when he owned the, I 00:47:00forget the name of this company, but anyway. But he may have some old newspapers from then.

But we met in a number of different places. Windcap used to have, their first offices was over off of Orange Street. That was the first big place. And we would meet in their little meeting room, a lot of different groups and the newspaper staff and stuff, we would meet over there at times.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Who ran Windcap for, oh gosh, not in the 90s?

Jerry Connor:

I don't remember the names. I've forgotten the executive directors back then. Excuse me. But I was involved with the group way back then when we did that. And 00:48:00then I know I was involved with let's see, there was myself, there was Bill, I can't think of his last name now. I'll shoot, my brain's stopping right now. Anyway, a number of us that used to collect food for persons with HIV at our food drives and we had it over at All Souls Church. And then out of that became Loving Food Resources. And that was the first grouping. There were a number of us that would have drives all the time and then Loving Foods was created. And at that point, and then later on, it was moved over to-

Tina White, Interviewer:

Over near the mall?

Jerry Connor:

Kenworth.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Kenworth.

Jerry Connor:

It's a Methodist. Kenworth Methodist Church up there. And that's where they are now. They've been wonderful about opening up. The church has supported it. They created a building for it. They've redone that roofing, they've done all kinds of stuff for Loving Foods. And so that's where the pantry is down, operates out of there for all these years.

Tina White, Interviewer:

In terms of the LGBTQ community, where do you think Asheville is heading like in 10 years from now?

Jerry Connor:

Well, and talking with you and listening to you say that you had so many young 00:50:00people that are getting involved with the Blue Ridge Pride, I think that if you've got the young people coming in, then that's going to be the salvation of the community here. I don't see the mega bars anymore. I mean, Scandals was reverted back to, since the owner died and then his brothers sold it and it's now reverting back to a straight club and more of a catering venue. Those aren't going to ever come back. And the areas, and now, since you don't really have, except very few that are exclusively LGBT venues, that I think the community 00:51:00itself in Asheville is one of blending. And just the diversity roles, is what's going to actually be Asheville.

It's funny because people that come in, that I get contacts from all the time, I need to know where's the Gayborhood? Where do all the gays live and everything else. Where's the big gay section in Asheville? I'm going, "It's Asheville." There is no a particular, like in some of the larger cities, it's because Asheville is combined of all these different little communities, but each one is a blending of gay, straight, techno, whatever you call all these different little groups, they all belong together in that same area.

So, we'd become a melting pot as opposed to a little sampling in each little 00:52:00area of individuals. And I don't think that the community will be lost, I think it's just going to be more of, you can identify as being LGBT, but with that identity, you're also belonging to a greater community as opposed to consolidating yourself into a single entity. And I think that's where I see Asheville going.

And I think that's going to be happening more across the country. We've established a voice, we're looking to do more and more, but the more that from marriage equality to other, there's still a lot to be championed as far as 00:53:00equality's with pay and health, and with being taken care of. But once you've established all of that, then we become part of the community as a whole, as opposed to a separate community fighting for those individual rights. And I think that's where I see it. I think that, the fact that you have to identify as being gay, I think that's going to come to a point where you don't. You can, if you want to, but you don't have to. And you don't have to shout it because it doesn't matter.

People and it's the younger group growing up, and you see it in kids that are more accepting, they don't see color or race or difference, they only see 00:54:00individuals. And the only way that they see color or see a difference is influenced from older adults. The older adults that had that influence are my age and dying out. The younger adults are those millennials that are coming up, who are now the ones that are out there, that are fighting for a cleaner air, this, that, and the other, and are accepting more and not being so prejudice.

And I think that same thing holds through with the Black Lives Matter, everything else. Unfortunately, with them, this isn't something that over hundreds of years is going to be solved in two days or a month or a year. It's going to take time. But within that time, you're also just like we've had 00:55:00difficulty, you're going to see the younger crowd that don't see black and white, they only see a person and that's, what's going to happen. And yes, there's a big fight for the others and even for the gay community, but it's not totally impossible. And I think for the gay community more so, than maybe the black community is going to see a better acceptance because they don't have as far to go.

Tina White, Interviewer:

I think we've covered a lot.

Jerry Connor:

I'm just going to say, I read about, I'm out, so I will check.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Is there anything else that I didn't?

Jerry Connor:

No, that's about it. I know on the one thing I mentioned about the two times that we had the gay parade up here North Carolina.

Tina White, Interviewer:

North Carolina Pride?

Jerry Connor:

Pride. Yes. It was up here twice. And the one time, and I don't remember if it was for Pride or if it was just for the movie.

Tina White, Interviewer:

And you said those had... Because we may have lost that, you said those both had parades.

Jerry Connor:

Yeah, they both had parades.

Tina White, Interviewer:

It's amazing, I'm jealous.

Jerry Connor:

And then we also had, when they filmed, what was the President's movie, the one that they filmed. But we actually had a gay pride parade at Asheville for that. Oh, I kept thinking it was the one with Jack Lemmon, but anyway, the Pride parade was in Asheville, that was from Asheville.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Oh my goodness and then you also mentioned that after one of the two Pride parades.

Jerry Connor:

After one of the gay Pride festivals, the North Carolina Pride and the parade 00:57:00the next week, Ralph Sexton with the Baptist Church here got all his people together.

Tina White, Interviewer:

First Baptist of Asheville?

Jerry Connor:

Yes. Got all his people together and they had a anti-gay parade, and they all brought floats and the churches had their church floats and they were waving their Bibles and their signage all said "Homosexuals are condemned to hell and everything else." I mean, it was a huge parade all through.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Because they participated in the last two of our parades.

Jerry Connor:

Well, yeah, but this was-

Tina White, Interviewer:

No, no same church, [crosstalk 00:57:42]. We're talking about the Asheville Baptist Church in downtown?

Jerry Connor:

Now, wait a minute. No, I don't think no, not downtown.

Tina White, Interviewer:

You're talking about the mega church?

Jerry Connor:

No, no Ralph Sexton. He wouldn't dare participate in a gay pride.

Tina White, Interviewer:

I'll go ask him next time.

Jerry Connor:

And it was funny because on some of the floats, when the float went by on the 00:58:00back of the float was, "You're condemned to hell." And it was just having such horrible, it wasn't God is great or anything like that. It was just everything against anti gays.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Very sad.

Jerry Connor:

But there was one during, in fact, during that time, during the state Pride festival, there was a group of Christian protestors or whatever that came up. And at the time there was a group that marched in the parade and they were called the mud people. And they were all caked in green mud all over them. And they would run up and get in front of the protestors.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Oh, that's great.

Jerry Connor:

It was.

Tina White, Interviewer:

That's hysterical.

Jerry Connor:

Excuse me. And I don't remember the significance of the mud people then, but it was, and then there was a group that was here many years ago called the Radical Fairies.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Oh, I've heard of them.

Jerry Connor:

The Radical Fairies met in Robbins, not Robbinsville, in Bakersfield. And there was a place out there and they were all part of, oh, I can't think of his name now, the main fellow that started the Radical Fairies. But anyway, they would be then, and they participated in that too, but they always would be around and they would be all the time, and it was just so funny. They would have conventions and people come in everywhere. The Radical Fairies, they were all dressed up in all these fairy outfits and stuff, it was really cool.

Tina White, Interviewer:

Oh, that's hysterical. That's hysterical.

Jerry Connor:

There's only a couple of people left in Asheville that remembers of the Radical 01:00:00Fairies. But anyway it was a [inaudible 01:00:10].

Tina White, Interviewer:

Was that named just in fun or were they?

Jerry Connor:

No, I mean, no, it actually is a group and I mean, it's national, it's called Radical Fairies. And I'm trying to think of the, oh, what was his name? Famous gay activist. Ton of life back, I can't think of his name, but anyway, he started it. And they had a big thing in New York and everything.

Tina White, Interviewer:

That's cool. All right.

Jerry Connor:

That's about all I can think of to tell you.

Tina White, Interviewer:

All right. So, let me just make sure I'll-