Oral History with Dan Coleman

Patrick Bahls: This is going. Looks like that's going, this one's registering.

Patrick Bahls: So this is Patrick Bahls recording an interview on September 20th, 2019, for the Western North Carolina LGBTQ oral history project, and I'm here with Dan Coleman.

Dan Coleman: Hello.

Patrick Bahls: And we've already gone ahead and signed off all of the legal documents and the consent forms, and we'll go ahead and get started. Just sort of an opening question, just to say how long have you lived in Western North Carolina, and what is it that brought you here?

Dan Coleman: Yeah. So I'm actually one of the few still remaining lifelong natives to the area. You know, was born here in 1987, and grew up here my entire life, with the exception of a few years. When I was really young we lived in Charleston South Carolina, but we moved from there, I was about three and settled in the Weaverville area. So for all of the memories in life 00:01:00that I can remember clearly, it's all for this area.

Dan Coleman: I had a big desire, when I was teenager, to try to get out of the area, partially just because of that typical teenage desire to just, you know, fly the coup and go experience something new. Truly, partially also because teenage life growing up as a queer youth in the area was kind of hard, and so I had a desire to try to go someplace that I felt like would accept me a little more. But then, when it came time to start applying for colleges and looking at the realism of where I could go, and where I could afford to go, versus where I wanted to go, I humorously enough ended up landing here at UNCA. And so, spent my four years in college here, graduated in 2009, left from here and ended up getting a teaching job about a year after in the area, 00:02:00that moved into another position that I've now been at for almost seven years, and I just haven't been able to shake Asheville so far.

Dan Coleman: You know, there's always been a part of me in my heart that's wanted to explore and try something new, but this will always be my true home. I don't think that'll ever change.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah. You mentioned that it was hard, I think your word was hard for queer youth in the area, can you expand on that a little bit? What was it?

Dan Coleman: Yeah. You know, I came out initially to people to whom I felt close, and felt I could trust the information about 13. That ended up kind of morphing into pretty much everyone in my school community knowing within the first half of my freshman year of high school. And my peer community, 00:03:00while there was a small group that I always kind of felt really comfortable and safe around, the peer community at large always felt to me indifferent at best, to aggressive at worst. I remember pretty clearly through at least my freshman and most of my sophomore year of high school, being the target of a lot of bullying from upperclassmen members of the school. Often male peers that would evidently take a lot of enjoyment out of finding ways to tease, harass, and ultimately just kind of scare a lot.

Dan Coleman: I really recall in particular, when I was ... This 00:04:00would've been Fall semester of sophomore year, I was doing a musical, it was my first musical that I ever did, My Fair Lady, and I would have to spend afternoons at the school because my dad would have to work late shifts at work, we were a one-car family, he would have to take the car to work, so if I were to leave school and then try to come back in the evening for rehearsals, it was difficult to try to find a ride from somebody. So I often would just stay late, and would just stay after school. And there was one particular peer in school who had caught on that I was staying at the school in the afternoons, and there was usually a period of time between about four and five where teachers had left for the day, janitorial staff had wound down and left for 00:05:00the day, and there really weren't a lot of adults left in the school.

Dan Coleman: And so, it made it very easy to be able to kind of single me out in the area, and they would do everything from just kind of hang out nearby and sort of say all kinds of derisive things to outwardly ... Like chasing me around the building. I was fortunate enough that one of the teachers that I had there, who was himself an openly gay man, he often would stay at school until fairly late in the day, and so once I ... He caught on one day when he found me pretty much just tucked into a corner outside the school building, just kind of a sobbing mess because I was scared. I was frightened, and I 00:06:00didn't know what to do, I didn't necessarily feel like I could trust just any faculty member to go to them and be like, "Listen, I'm being targeted and bullied because of this."

Dan Coleman: So he sought me out and found me one afternoon, and brought me into his classroom, and just kind of was very open of, "Listen, I'm here to be a person you can talk to, a person you can come to, I can't guarantee that the administration will always support you, but I will always support you." And so, that became a very powerful thing that really helped me to kind of shift my own personal narrative about my relationship with school as a youth coming to terms with all these elements of my identity. So it was important to 00:07:00me, school was the place where I really felt successful, I really felt like thrived, I wasn't very athletic, I didn't, unfortunately, have a lot of the privilege in my home life to be exposed to a lot of extra-curricular activities, other than the couple that I sort of took interest in in school that didn't really require extra investment.

Dan Coleman: So academics was the one place I really felt like I could thrive and I could show my gifts. So to feel like that environment was hostile to me, it was a serious cognitive dissonance, and it really made it hard for me to accept myself. You know, I spent a lot of time in high school trying to convince myself that this wasn't me, that maybe it was a phase, maybe this was just part of the typical teenage hormone-induced confusion, that 00:08:00I would somehow get to the other side of this and be able to be "normal" in some kind of way that would allow me to be accepted, and to fill that role that I saw myself wanting to fill as a student of the school who could be a role model and somebody that the school would uplift and say "this is a model student of ours".

Dan Coleman: I eventually got to that. Once I was able to find allies, find support, and use that to help me carve a new path, and think about things in a different way. But it took a lot to get there, and fighting against so much of that, it made it hard for me to be able to accept myself, 00:09:00and that created a lot of difficulty and crisis of identity for me as a teenager. You know, but I was really fortunate between my physics teacher, who I did eventually have as a physics teacher my junior year, which was fantastic.

Patrick Bahls: This is the same person as before?

Dan Coleman: Yeah. Yeah, he was the physics teacher there at the time. And then, I was fortunate enough that the school resource officer was actually a really helpful advocate. It eventually got to a point with one of the students who was bullying and harassing me, I really did fear for my physical safety. And so that was the point at which I'm like, "It's time to take this to the resource officer." And I was terrified. Because again, I didn't know, is he 00:10:00going to be in my corner? Am I going to be just dismissed? Or worse, are they going to in some sort of way take his side? And find a reason that I'm somehow in the wrong? So it took a lot of courage for me to finally walk into his office and lay out everything.

Dan Coleman: But when I did he was incredibly supportive, and he said flat out, he's like, "Listen, I have zero concern as to whatever parts of your identity are in play here, what you just described to me is harassment. What you just described to me has the ability to raise to the level of assault." He said, "So quite frankly, you're well within your right here, if you feel that it is necessary to press charges, I will support you and we will pursue this." He said, "But what I'd like to encourage instead is, let's bring him in 00:11:00here, you, me, and him together, and have a conversation." I was, of course, very hesitant of that at first because I'm like, "You're going to take the person who I've been fleeing from for fear of my safety this whole time, you're going to put me I the same room as him? I don't know." But of course, I'm like, "Obviously, the school resource officer is right there, if anything's going to happen that's the best place for it to."

Dan Coleman: And so, he did. He brought him in and he laid everything out. He's like, "Listen, here's all the accounts I have from him, he has witnesses to corroborate many of the things that have been described." He said, "From where I'm standing, he is pretty well-positioned to press charged against you." And once this guy saw that this was for real, that there were real consequences and real ways this could affect his future, he completely broke down and basically just begged, "Please, I didn't mean anything by 00:12:00it, it was all in good fun." And I'm sitting here thinking, "For you maybe! I don't think you understand the ways in which this has affected me." But I ultimately wasn't out for revenge. I was not trying to damage anybody, I just wanted it to stop. So I told him, I went, "Listen, if you can give me your word that you and any of your friends who have been involved in this process will just knock it off and leave me alone and let me live my life, we'll call this done."

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: "But if I so much as even suspect that you're up to this again, this is exactly where we'll be." And that was the end of that with regards to those incidents. I never really had any further experiences that really threatened my feelings of well-being and safety on a physical level. 00:13:00Everything else was more emotional. But one of the things that really was the hardest for me when I was coming to finally accept my identity, and trying to understand what it meant, you know, because all of the cultural stigma that I had been surrounded by had given me the message that being gay was to be associated with deviancy, disease, drugs, just everything that would be considered a dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle, and I'm like, "But that's not what this is about for me." For me, it's just that I feel this compelling force that tells me that the things I'm attracted to are different 00:14:00from what all my peers are.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: But everything else to me seemed not connected to what I was feeling. So you know, I really tried to start researching, reaching out, finding places in the community, I got involved with PFLAG, and PFLAG was a great resource for me as a teenager. Not just for being able to find a community of people that I could feel safe and comfortable around, and that I could talk about my real issues with and know that they would be heard, but it also started to provide me with resources that I could use to start approaching adults in my life that I felt like I needed to try to help understand. My dad, in particular, was probably one of the biggest.

Dan Coleman: You know, when I came out at 13, my mom I think struggled with 00:15:00 it a little, but I think she always knew. She had that kind of maternal instinct of when your five-year-old boy never really wants to go and play in the dirt and play ball with all the guy friends in the neighborhood, but instead is choosing to play with Barbie dolls and dress up with all the girl friends in the neighborhood you probably kind of know something's up. But I think my dad really struggled with it with me being the only child, the only son that he had, it was a huge cognitive dissonance for him, I think, because he always imagined that I would grow up, get married, start a family, carry on the family name. You know, all those things that you want for your son because that's what culture, up until this moment, has told you is the natural progression.

Dan Coleman: And so, when I shared this part of myself with him, his initial reaction was just, I think, fear based. But I always knew that he 00:16:00loved me unconditionally but struggled to be able to digest this part of my identity, and PFLAG was really helpful in being able to provide me resources and ways to kind of frame the conversation to be able to bridge that gap. And they, through that, eventually said, "Well, as far as your school life is concerned, have you considered looking into starting a GSA?"

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And I got really excited about that idea. I was like, "This would be perfect! This would be the union between these two seemingly opposing forces in my life right now of being able to be a model member of the school community, but also be true to myself and my identity. This is a great way for me to be able to bring those two things together." And I got really, really into this idea, and I did a bunch of research, checked out all kinds of 00:17:00books from PFLAG's lending library, and I assembled ... I think by the time I had gathered all the data and everything ... And I did, I put this whole report together. It was probably on the order of 20 some-odd pages worth of research that I had collected, and just kind of my interpretation on it, and effectively trying to develop a proposal to the school for starting the GSA. Mr. Hamlin had said right off the bat, "I will be your sponsor." Because every club had to have a faculty sponsor.

Patrick Bahls: And he's the physics teacher?

Dan Coleman: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he immediately was like, "I will be your sponsor, 100%." So I had a sponsor in our corner, I had several students who were in promotion of this idea, and so I put this together, I gave it 00:18:00to our principal, and I said, here's what I ... I even requested to meet with him, we met during lunch one day, I laid it all out, I said, "Here's my proposal, I'd like to get your endorsement to do this." And it was dead in the water. I never so much as heard back, there was never even a follow-up. I can only assume that as soon as I left the room it probably just went in the trash. Nothing ever came from that afterwards. I tried to appeal to higher powers, I went to the county office, talked to the assistant super-intendant, had a letter of support from the assistant super-intendant saying, "We support this idea." Still met with complete silence.

Patrick Bahls: And which school was this?

Dan Coleman: Yeah, so this was at North Buncombe High School was where I was at from 2002 to 2005. And so, the GSA proposal I made in, I think it was my Junior year, so that would've been the Fall of 2004, and it just never went anywhere. And it became clear to me that short of getting news media involved and creating some kind of conflict [inaudible 00:19:32] that would apply pressure, but then ultimately putting myself at risk, this was probably not going anywhere.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And so, I decided at that point, I had done my best to try to fight to good fight. I at least, in the process of this, had been able to learn who my allies were. And so, knowing the people that I had in my corner, and knowing the people that I could rely on, and the places in the school where I 00:20:00could be safe, whether that was with the theater in chorus, with my physics teacher, wherever, that at least made it more digestible for me to get by in that environment. You know, I am incredibly fortunate in that I never was physically assaulted. I was never in a situation where I had serious threat to my physical safety, and I know that I am incredibly fortunate in that regard. But that didn't stop me from having a four year experience in high school where I felt like an outsider, and that was really difficult.

Dan Coleman: And I think in a lot of ways that probably I never fully realized until I was well into adulthood, it really made it difficult for me 00:21:00to actualize myself, to understand and accept myself completely, because I was growing up in this formative experience. You know, everything I had been told up until this point was, you know, these are the years that are going to cultivate you into the adult that you will become. I spent those four years being surrounded, at least what it felt like to me, by a message that at best was saying "we don't understand you", and at worst was saying, "we just prefer it if you'd go away".

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And there are a few questions I have in mind.

Dan Coleman: Yeah, I'm sure several things ...

Patrick Bahls: No, it's fantastic. I think one of the questions I had was, and you talked a little bit about figuring out through this process who your allies were, and who you could count on to be in your corner. And one of the questions, I guess, you talked a little bit about the super-intendant and 00:22:00various teachers that were on your side, did you get to know a community of peers? Was there a community of peers in your situation at your high school?

Dan Coleman: Definitely. Yeah, and it pretty much ... The theater was kind of like the black hole that sucked us all in and brought us together. I did my first theater show Spring of my freshman year, we did A Midsummer Night's Dream, and I got cast in the role of Francis Flute, one of the court players who did Pyramus and Thisbe for the royal court, so of course, I got to be the person who had to dress up in drag to do Thisbe, because among all the people in our theater crew everybody was like, "Well, here's your opportunity to be queer and fabulous on stage, do you want that?" And I immediately 00:23:00latched onto it. I mean, it was funny, of course, because it was obviously for comedy, so it was not even good drag, it was really obviously bad drag, but it was so much fun, and it was just nice to be in that environment where I could just be expressive, and have a good time, and enjoy these things, and nobody batted an eye. Nobody even blinked.

Dan Coleman: And I specifically remember one of our other members of the crew for that show, he was a senior who was out, and I just had so much admiration. You know, I was like "That's what I want! I want to be able to be out and empowered and just not give a damn what anybody thinks about 00:24:00it, and just be unapologetically myself!" You know? And I saw him just live that out completely on stage, and it was so inspiring to me.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: Because I was like, "Oh, this is fun, it'll be a nice feather in my cap for college applications later, but I don't know that theater's really going to be my thing." Which, anybody who knows me is like, "Really? Theater's not your thing?" And of course, I fell in love with it, so then immediately next Fall signed up for the Fall musical, did another show that Spring, did two shows my Junior year. The only reason I didn't even continue into my senior year ... I thought that was my phone ... Was that I was so up to my eyeballs in AP classes, and college applications, and taking the SAT and the ACT, I just had no time to be able to commit. Because anybody who's ever done a theater show will tell you, when you commit to it, you pretty much 00:25:00give all of your free time to it.

Dan Coleman: I always loved when I had friends who were in theater here, we made a running joke that we should just print shirts for all of them that say "sorry, I have rehearsal". Because anytime you ever wanted to do anything, "Hey, you want to come out?" "Nope, sorry, I have rehearsal." And in high school, it's little difference. So I ended up having to give it up my senior year, but I still stayed really connected with those same people, and often first thing in the mornings and the afternoon, at this point I'm driving myself so I don't have to worry about transportation, I can come and go as I please, the theater was 90% of the time where you would find me if I was not in classes, and even sometimes when I was in classes and I'd get things finished early, "Hey, Mrs. [inaudible 00:25:43], is it cool if I head down to the theater and help them work on the set?" "Yeah, you're done, go on ahead."

Dan Coleman: So the theater became my real safe haven. You know, it was the place where I knew that nobody thought any differently of me, everybody accepted me exactly the way I was, and that was where I was able to really get 00:26:00to know myself, and also, others that were going through the same kind of crisis of identity and coming to understand themselves. And that community was so beautiful and powerful, and I think I could probably say with a fair degree of confidence that had it not been for that I don't know 100% that I would've made it through. I could very easily imagine an alternative timeline where without that community I may have eventually just decided to drop out.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: Because I wouldn't have felt like I had a place to go and people to look out for me.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And I would've just had this perpetual feeling of being this outsider amongst a group of people that, again, at best didn't get me, and 00:27:00at worst just wished I wasn't around.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah. Are theater, and or drag, are those communities you're still involved in in any way? Or engaged in in any way?

Dan Coleman: Not as much as I wish I was. I have a lot of desire to get back into the theater world. Humorously enough, what has kind of supplanted that for me lately, has been tabletop role play games. That was something, of course, I started as early as eight grade, and continued on through high school, a little bit in college, though not as much, and then once I got into adulthood it really kind of became my link to nostalgia. My way to kind of be able to go back to those times as a kid. Because a lot of the kids that I would hang out with in theater were the same kids that would all meet after the show, or Sunday morning before our run through and we'd 00:28:00play D&D for a couple of hours. So that kind of became my way to keep that part of my life with me, without having to struggle with the challenges of being able to commit so much time and energy to a theater production.

Dan Coleman: I wish I was in a position where I could do that, I really admire people who can do community theater as just a hobby and something they do on the side and it's not just their career. Because I don't see how one manages to stay fully connected in that and not just make it your whole life's career, because it's such a huge undertaking to be able to give that much time to it. As far as drag, I still very much love drag culture, I will admit that I am a religious RuPaul's Drag Race fan, I 100% follow it religiously, love it dearly, I have nothing but respect and admiration for drag culture, 00:29:00if for and other reason than the times that I did drag, or drag-adjacent things as a kid were very difficult. Just the production of it, it takes a lot. The make-up, the hair, the outfit, the walk, it's all ... It's a lot.

Dan Coleman: And that's one of the things I love so much about the drag culture, is that through all of the literal blood, sweat, and tears that go into the production of a drag show, I feel like there's so much transformation, and growth, and ability to get in touch with oneself that happens through all of that. I enjoy the experience, but I never really found it to quite 00:30:00click for me. I don't know if part of that is just because my genetic makeup makes it a little difficult for drag, I have a lot of hair removal I got to do in order to pull off good drag. But I also think that, while I definitely have a very feminine element to myself, one thing that I kind of came to realize, especially later on in life, is that I am still very much in my male identity. Drag is cool, and it's fun, and I know for many people who eventually come to understand a different part of their gender identity, drag can be a really great way to transition into that. But that wasn't me.

Dan Coleman: And so for me, it was like, I can love, and appreciate, and watch people do this from a distance, but it is way too much work. Especially 00:31:00 for me. For me to really want to take it on in any kind of serious way. It's also really expensive. My heart goes out to all those lovely drag queens out there who are doing great drag on a budget, because good drag is not cheap at all.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: And that was something that, you know, I did not do very well with because I didn't have a lot of money, so trying to ... I remember, I think it was Halloween, I did a drag costume one Halloween and for every bit as obviously bad as my drag was in my freshman theater show, it was just as bad, if not worse in my costume. And that was kind of where I was like, "You know? Not everything's for you, and this is probably just one of those things."

Patrick Bahls: Well, I'm curious, theater was your outlet in high 00:32:00school, or your community in high school. Since high school, staying in the area as an adult, if you can put your finger on any organizations, groups, communities, any specific events in Western North Carolina that have been really powerful or supportive for you?

Dan Coleman: For sure. Well, I mean first and foremost was here at UNCA. When I enrolled here in the Fall of 2005 it was a breath of fresh air for me to step into a community that did not look at me any differently, that did not put on a different set of lenses to view me as who I was, and was able to just see me for who I was, and allow me to live with full authenticity. That was so empowering to me. You know, to be able to walk into a classroom and not feel like the black sheep in the room, and to know that I had plenty 00:33:00of others that identifies within a similar community right there in the same classroom, possibly even the professor themselves.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: So empowering for me. I wish I had been more involved with the GSA here at UNCA than I was. I think I kind of very quickly, between being a teaching fellow, and a math major, and then having all my other education work to do, just kind of ended up jumping headfirst into course work, and never really had given much time or energy to ... I tried a little bit with some things, but at the end of the day, once I got sucked into the black hole of theoretical math there was just no looking back, you know? You want 00:34:00to be part of this but then you're like, "But it's going to take me so many hours to write this proof, I'm just going to have to work on that."

Dan Coleman: And so, I wish I had had more involvement with that but didn't. I still like to listen and watch from a distance, and it really warms my heart to see just how much that it has continued to grow and thrive in this community, and be such a powerful resource for people. Outside of that, as an adult, I've not ... I wish I could say that I've been connected to specific community organizations, probably not as much as I would like to. I love Asheville Pride, and absolutely love getting to participate in that. Not really have I had any way to be involved in the process of it, but knowing that it's there, and being able to have it as an experience is amazing because 00:35:00I'm pretty sure, as I recall, it really kind of materialized while I was in college.

Dan Coleman: I don't really think Blue Ridge Pride was ever a thing when I was an adolescent. I don't think was until I was here in college into my early 20s that I saw that kind of take shape. But now being able to enjoy that as an adult has been really great. I think for me it's really just more been about developing my own community of friendship, and finding those people at work, in friend circles, and kind of just surrounding myself in that community of people that I know through others, whether it be people I've met here at UNCA, people I've met through workplaces. I think a large part of my 00:36:00queer circle of friends, as it were, I developed through a roommate that I had shortly after college.

Dan Coleman: I graduated in May of '09, and I actually had started living with them in my senior year, right after I got back from my Cambridge study abroad. I moved into a house with them in West Asheville, lived there through my junior year, we moved to another place, lived there through my senior year, and then after graduation, I lived with them for about another four years. I got through them through my friend Becki and her partner, Jediah, got to learn about what was then Outspoken Caf and Books, was in the storefront that is now occupied by The Hop on Haywood Road.

Dan Coleman: And so, that became sort of a secondary haven for me, where I got to meet a lot of people. They would often hold events with community 00:37:00activists, authors, musicians in the area, and so that gave me this great exposure to parts of the community that I had not really gotten connected to yet because I was still a very young adult, and up until that point, you know, most of my life was kind of centered here on campus as an on-campus student. Once I moved off campus and was then, at this point, very much an adult, but still kind of not in some ways, but I was then positioned to be able to meet so many members of the community that, up until that point, I didn't know existed just because social circles didn't intersect.

Dan Coleman: You know, it's nice now as a 32 year old adult in this 00:38:00area, seeing a culture and a community here that doesn't feel as isolated as it used to. Looking back on it, yes I was able to find that community, but it felt like, at that point in time, it kind of existed in pockets. You know, that there were certain places, and certain areas that I could go and I could find those people, and I could connect with them. But, for lack of a better phrase, it definitely felt kind of segregated. You know, that there were these clear spaces where I could go and experience that, but then you left that and you went back to the normal world where you would have to interact with everyday people, and never really know whether or not you might have to hide those elements of yourself.

Dan Coleman: You know, now I feel like the community has grown and 00:39:00strengthened to the point where I don't ever feel afraid in this area anymore to just be myself, unless I am kind of leaving city limits. That's one thing, of course, for my experience growing up here that was really interesting, I did not grow up in Asheville [proper? 00:39:27], I grew up in Weaverville, just outside of Asheville, and Weaverville was very much a small town when I was growing up, and it very much had that small town community feel, and I think that contributed a lot to the feeling of isolation I had as a teenager. Because, I think at one point in time or another, I did very much convince myself that ... I was like, "Am I literally the only gay person in Weaverville?"

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And it did kind of feel like that at certain times. It's interesting to me that still to this day, even myself and other queer 00:40:00friends of mine ... I have one really good friend who lives in Marshall, and she says, "You can see it slowly evolving. If you go into the downtown space, and you look at some of these areas, you see it starting to try to breakthrough, but there is still very much that pervasive Southern sort of Christian conservative influence culture where ..." It kind of feels there now, like what it did in Asheville then. Where it's like, yes it's okay if you want to go be gay go do it over there. That's your space to go be gay, here we're not going to do that. We're not going to talk about that. We're just going to be normal here. At least, I feel like, within the immediate Asheville area that it 00:41:00has evolved past that.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: You know, I don't ever go anywhere within the immediate Asheville area and ever feel like I have to curb myself like I have to try to do anything different. I remember as a teenager I would very specifically have a certain voice that I would try to use, and I'd try to drop my pitch down and be less emotive, because I've listened to recordings of myself before and when I'm just being authentically me it's like, "Oh, yeah. That dude's totally gay." I'm not hiding anything. But I remember specifically having that persona that I would try to put on when I felt like, "Oh, this is not a safe space, I need to cover up." I don't ever really feel that in this immediate area. Now, travel 30, 40 miles in any cardinal direction from here, it's a different situation.

Dan Coleman: But it's awesome to me to get to see and feel like there is sort of a spread and a growth that is coming from that. I mean, I live in 00:42:00Leicester now. Now, growing up my whole life, Leicester would've very much been considered to be a community similar to that like Marshall, Mars Hill, Hendersonville, Black Mountain, any of those still very kind of quiet small town conservative places. But I look around, and even within my own immediate neighborhood within the past year and a half that I've lived there, I have found that there are other queer members of the community.

Dan Coleman: Which has been incredibly empowering, because when my partner and I moved deep out into Leicester because it was affordable and we like the country and everything, as soon as we bought the house and started moving in, first thing I said to him is "Honey, I have no idea how the rest of the community is going to take to a couple of gay folks moving in. We may very well need to be prepared to be met with some backlash here." And I was really 00:43:00pleasantly surprised when a week or so after having moved in I was out in the driveway and the neighbor just comes over and, "Hi! I'm Mavis, nice to meet you!" And we talk, and come to find out she has a transgender daughter, you know? I was like, "That's amazing!"

Dan Coleman: I would've never in my wildest dreams, because of my upbringing here, expected to have just moved into an area like this and find that right next door there's a connection. Then I get to know my other neighbor next door, her daughter identifies as lesbian, I'm like "What? We moved into a little queer haven out here in Leicester and we never even knew it! This is amazing!" You know, and that was such a great feeling for me to finally be able to put that defensive mantel down, and to not have to feel like I 00:44:00have to live my lifeguarded. And that wasn't even so much about me, but it was really more about mine and my partner's safety.

Dan Coleman: If somebody doesn't like the fact that I'm gay, I'm old enough at this point, I don't really care what you think. What I worry about is somebody who is going to decide to take it upon themselves to institute some kind of vigilante justice or some ridiculous notion like that. To be able to move into an area feeling like, "Oh, we might be the outsiders." And then immediately find out that we're actually more connected to these people in these ways that we would've never imagined, that we thought. It was a total game-changer. And to experience that in as what, at least once, used to be considered as rural an area as Leicester, is pretty amazing. Because I wouldn't have expected it, you know, moving that far outside of city limits, to see that. So to me, it really kind of stands as testament to show 00:45:00just how much the influence of a more vibrant and thriving queer culture within Asheville has started to create an effect for the surrounding areas. Which I love, I think that's fantastic.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: And I have seen, even within members of the community that may have been initially resistant to this evolution, that there are people who are starting to take notice, and are starting to at least try to process.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: You know, one of the things that I learned in my coming out process with my parents, and with my extended family, when you're a teenager, and you're coming out, and you feel so vulnerable, and you're just looking for acceptance, you're looking for ... All you want to hear is, "I'm going to love 00:46:00you no matter what." And it is the deepest, most powerful fear, that what you're going to be met with is "Get out."

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And I was afraid of that because I had heard those stories through Mr. Hamlin. You know, he told me about another young man that had graduated a couple years before I arrived. He was a start student, top-notch, nothing but promise going for him, finally decided to come out the his family, and they completely disowned him, kicked him out, refused to give him any money for college, just completely disconnected. So he ended up going into the military to kind of bridge the gap, and it worked well for him thankfully. But again, we're talking 2002, don't ask don't tell was still the ... That was the primary protocol. And so, I did not want to end up in that 00:47:00situation, I did not want to be in a situation where I would have to rely on the military for food, housing, stability, all of those things. So it is always the biggest fear, I would daresay, in any young person's mind, when they are trying to share that most vulnerable element of themselves, that they're not going to hear the answer they want to hear.

Patrick Bahls: No.

Dan Coleman: That they're going to be met with their worst nightmare. That the people that they have grown up thinking you could always go to for love and reassurance and protection, turn their back on you. And I was fortunate that at least my mother did not start in that position. My father very much did. When I first came out, immediately his reaction ... The image, the 00:48:00words are burned in my mind to this day, of my father looking me in the eye and saying "No son of mine is going to be a faggot." And that was just so destructive in that moment. And so I felt all this rage, and anger, and resentment toward my dad. And I just wanted to be like, "Well, to hell with you! I don't need you! I can make it without you!" You know?

Dan Coleman: And I remember when I got ready to graduate college, and I told him, I said, "Dad, listen ..." You know, because we had ... I had always struggled to get along with my dad because we're just very different people.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: You know, he's very much a, raised in the South, work with your hands, just simple, to the point person. I'm very much not that. You 00:49:00know, I am a more kind of intellectual, critical-thinking type of person, and it always frustrated him that I could be really book smart, but then would struggle ... He was very kinesthetic smart. He could just put his hands on something and make it work.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And so, he would just be like, "Oh, you get this. Go do the thing." And then, conceptually I'd understand how it's all supposed to work, but I'm trying to make it happen and I'm just not. So we always kind of had that natural sort of struggle that you would have as a teenage son and a dad anyways, this just brought a whole new element to it. And so, when I turned ... Well, I was 17, getting ready to turn 18 that summer, graduated high school, I knew I was coming to UNCA in the Fall, and I just told him.

Dan Coleman: I'm like, "Listen, dad, this can happen one of two ways. We can either put our differences aside and we can love and respect each 00:50:00other as family, and we can work to rebuild and forge a new chapter in this relationship. Or you can continue to not accept me for who I am, and I can walk out that door and never come back." I was like, "I know that I'm just going to be 20 minutes away at UNCA, but you know as well as I do, I don't ever have to come back home. I will get all my needs met right here. The choice is yours."

Dan Coleman: And I think when he realized that and was met with that reality, that there was the possibility that his son would walk out and never see him again, that he needed to make a change. So he, at that point, really started to try to listen, to understand, for the very first time. Where everything up until that point, I feel like had just kind of been met with eyes closed, fingers in the ears, "I don't want to see it, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to talk about it. I know that this is a part of you, but I 00:51:00just want to ignore it."

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And that was kind of the same thing I always saw whenever we were around friends of his. You know, anytime any talk of, "So you got a girlfriend?" He would immediately try to change the subject, because he was so afraid that I would jump in there and say, "Well, actually ..." and now he's stuck in a situation where he has to explain his gay son to a friend. And to him I'm sure that felt really embarrassing, and something he didn't want to do. But he really started to try. And it was hard at first, and I had to fight a lot ... I had to help him break a lot of stereotypes.

Dan Coleman: And he told me one time, when he finally got vulnerable he was like, "I'm afraid for you." He was like, "Part of the reason I don't like this, part of the reason is because I'm scared for you. I'm scared that you're going to go out and do something that is going to be risky, and 00:52:00you're going to get hurt, you're going to catch something." You know, he's like, "I just, I don't want that for you. I want you to be able to live an ordinary life, to go to college, to get a degree, get a good job, settle down, start a family."

Dan Coleman: And I looked at him and I said, "Dad, why? Why can't I do all those things and be me? What has to stop me from doing any of the things that you just described, and still be myself? I understand that you are so used to thinking that being gay means these things, because that's what culture and society, especially in your upbringing ..." I mean, we're talking about a man who was in his 20s when the AIDS crisis erupted. So I'm sure he was buffeted with all of these negative messages and ideas about what it meant, and so now he's thinking to himself, "I don't want that for my son. I want my 00:53:00son to live a happy successful life." And I had to be the one to kind of help him reframe the perspective that these two things are not diametrically opposed. That I can be a healthy, successful, thriving gay man. Those two things can exist together.

Dan Coleman: And with that, slowly, over time he became more accepting, and more understanding. To the point now that he can even confidently stand and argue against other people. One of my proudest moments with my dad, we were hanging out, you know, one of the local watering holes he likes to go to. And some guy made some off-handed comment, you know, "I don't have 00:54:00any problem with gay people, I just wish they wouldn't do it where I have to see it." And while it was kind of a very simple answer, it had that sort of profound Southern wisdom to it all at the same time, he just turned around and looked at him and said, "Well why don't you just not pay attention? If it bothers you so bad just don't look." And while there's a part of that that I would've liked to see a more evolved answer, I also kind of had to meet my dad where he was, and understand that that was really profound for him.

Dan Coleman: You know, that he would even be willing to have the courage to break against every convention that he had grown up with in his society and culture, to say something at all was super amazing, and really made me proud in that moment. And really helped me to realize that as much as we ... 00:55:00When we, as young queer youth, are looking for acceptance from our family, and we're met with resistance, and our natural reaction is to be lashing out in anger, it really helped me to understand that it's a two-way process. That as much as I am looking for them to understand me, I need to be prepared to understand where they're coming from in the situation, and understand that they grew up in a particular culture, they grew up in a particular time in history that misinformed them about certain things, and they might hold onto those ideas because they think that's what they're supposed to believe.

Dan Coleman: But if they're willing to hear you out and learn something, be willing to be patient with them. Be willing to take that time. And that's a lot of the conversation that I have with kids that I now, as a teacher, 00:56:00get to help coach through this process. And this, to me, is one of the most beautiful elements of my job, is where I get to be that role model that I was looking for 15 years ago. I have the opportunity to be that teacher now, that students can come to and know it is 100% safe for you to be whoever you are, to talk about whatever you need to talk about. I will not judge you, I will not do anything to put you in danger, I will always support you. And one of the things I hear so much from students is that same thing, "I just wish they'd listen, I just wish they'd understand, I just wish they would hear me." And I have to just remind them, be willing to do the same for them.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: You know, it's very easy to get wrapped up in our own ego around this process of accepting our identity, and just wanting everybody to accept us the way we have come to accept ourselves. But you have to be ready to help those 00:57:00 people go through their own evolution and know that it's a process for them too. And that just because they don't necessarily day one go, "I love you, I accept you, I'm here for you always", doesn't mean that they won't eventually get there.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And my own experience helped me to understand that the evolution is not just for you, but also people around you. And that you're much better off being prepared to give the space and patience to those people that are close to you to grow than to just shut them out of your life. Now, of course, my situation's unique, and not everybody has the privilege and the benefit of having a family that can get there. And I understand that. I don't mean to say this in any means of, "Oh, well you know, if your family is kicking you out of the house just give them time, it'll be okay." Not 00:58:00everybody's experience is going to be like that. But I came to understand that the path to healing in a relationship is a two-way path and that you have to be prepared for that if you're ever going to really seek to do the work of healing and repairing that relationship. And I feel like that extends to a community level.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: It's tough because there's two sides to that coin. You know, on the one side, I don't think that anyone in the queer community here or anywhere, should ever have to feel like they need to be less, do less, restrain themselves, do anything that would restrict their expression of their identity. But I get really concerned with the sort of tribalist thinking that I 00:59:00see, where it's like, "Well, we're our queer community, and we're just going to rely on each other, and when people on the outside don't understand us then to hell with them, we don't need them, we've got us!" That's powerful for some people, and it's great that that community exists to uplift people when they need it.

Dan Coleman: But as somebody who's always felt a need to be ready to use diplomacy when it's needed, I really try to influence brothers and sisters in my community to think about the ways we need to be ready to reflect the same compassion and understanding to those people that we're asking of them. You know, that if all we ever do is throw up anger and resistance, then how do we expect to be met with anything different? And it's hard, and I 01:00:00don't say this in any sense to make it sound like it's, "Oh, well we just have to have a mind shift." It's a tough thing to do because it is hard to sit across the table from somebody that you feel like thinks that you're deviant, dirty, and deserve to burn in hell, and try to find a way to meet them halfway.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: I understand, that's incredibly difficult. But I think that if we are going to do the work that we really seek to do to bring full acceptance to the community, I think it's a necessary component. And so I've always tried to use my own experiences with the ways in which I had to kind of put my sword down, so to speak, and be willing to meet members of my own family halfway. I try to use that to constantly remind me that if I'm ever 01:01:00encountering a situation with somebody that would wish to discriminate against me, or judge me because of who I am, that I'm not doing myself any favors in moving that relationship forward by just continuing to kind of throw up a wall.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And I mean, we could wax philosophically forever about the deeper implications this has for society, and our whole country in general, but that's a conversation for another day and time. But that, to me, was probably one of the most profound learning experiences as a queer individual, is when I had to take a step back and realize, "You're not the only one in this transaction."

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: You know, that if you're going to look to the people on the other side of the argument and say, "I demand to be respected, I demand to 01:02:00be noticed and recognized for who I am and not be criticized for it." Then you've got to be prepared to turn around and do the same. To be able to put your argument down for a second and listen. Now again, obviously, two-way transaction. I'm not meaning to say that like if somebody's just going to sit there and hit you with nothing but prejudice and discrimination, and they're not going to listen to you, I'm not saying you should have to put yourself in any kind of emotional or physical danger. But when you have a person with whom you have a connection, and that connection is threatened because of this difference of ideas, the only way to really keep that connection going is to be ready to do with them what you're asking them to do for you.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And I think it's very easy at times because this is so 01:03:00personal. I'm not just asking you to accept, "Oh this is a person that I've ...", this is a whole part of me. This is a huge part of my identity. This is big element of my me-ness, so for you to just categorically reject that feels like you're saying you categorically reject me. And that's going to make anybody upset. I totally get that, and I totally support that. But I think that I always try to be prepared to put that element aside and be ready to listen when it makes sense. My end goal, always, is to push for greater connection, greater acceptance, and a stronger community. We do ourself a lot better service in that regard when we are ready to build bridges and not burn them, I guess, is what I mean to say.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah. Well, a couple questions come to my mind, you know, from what you've just said, going back a little bit to your talking about the role that you are uniquely situated to fulfill as having gone from being a student to being an educator, and having a perspective from both sides, essentially. And then, also looking at the broader community, and looking at what it needs to thrive. So one question, I guess, is you mentioned being able to be a role model now for the students in your charge, the students at your school. Can you say a little bit more about, just from your perspective, how things may have changed? How things may be the same? Are they dealing with the same things that you remember dealing with as a student? What's your perspective on that?

Dan Coleman: Yeah. That's a really interesting question to consider. 01:05:00I am very fortunate, in that, within a private school environment, you would typically expect that there would be a more kind of conservative culture, but I was really pleasantly surprised when starting work with the company where I'm at now, that it's really quite the opposite. We have a very accepting and open culture. If I had to just make a target estimate, I would probably daresay at least 40% of our workforce is probably LGBTQ in some form or another. And so, we have a really great community, a very open and accepting community in that regard, and so I have many degrees of freedom to be able to fill that role without having to worry about backlash from higher ups.

Dan Coleman: So I think that really gives me a lot of opportunity that might be difficult to find otherwise. In a public realm, it's so challenging, I think, because not only do you struggle with the culture just within that school, but then within the community that it serves. As a private boarding school, we don't necessarily have that same immediate community, because our students come from all over the country. And because we're a therapeutic entity due to HIPAA guidelines, we're kind of intentionally quiet and keep to ourselves.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: Whereas, in a public school environment, you're accountable to students, staff, and members of the community. And so, I think a lot of times, that can probably create barriers that would make it more 01:07:00challenging. I don't think that I would have any less of a mission as a public school teacher to fill that role, but I could absolutely see where I would encounter greater obstacles to being able to fulfill that role. You know, because all it takes is one parent, one family, one outcry, one call to WLOS, and now there is inordinate pressure upon the administration to deal with the situation. And I think in many cases, even where an administrator may in their heart want to be supportive, might find themselves backed into a corner where they're best way to diffuse the situation is to try to just sweep everything under the rug. Just make it all go away, and let's return to normal.

Dan Coleman: For the short period of time that I got to serve as an administrator at our small school ... Now granted, orders of 01:08:00magnitude much much smaller, I could definitely, from my experience, see where there would be that desire. You know, when things erupt, you just need to put out the fire. You need to try to establish normalcy, and routine, and get everything running smoothly again. And so, it would totally make sense that in some cases, however misinformed, and ultimately, more damaging it has the capacity to be, you may be tempted to just try to wave your hands and make it all go away. As opposed to what might be the right thing, which might be to take a stand, have a voice, be prepared to catch that fire. But as much as I can, from my armchair thought experiment here say, "Oh, well this is what I would want to do." If I were that person, in that situation, under that pressure, can I say with certainty that it's what I would do? No.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: Because there's so many other elements that you have to leverage. But I feel like when I look around, I still see growth happening there. But I mean, there are other elements where it does get called into question. I recently found out about an incident at North Buncombe earlier this week, with a transgender student who used the women's room as she should be permitted to do, and it created all kinds of backlash, student protest, WLOS got involved, and now it seems like in typical fashion, the administration is just doing everything they can to just make this go away, because all of that pressure has the capacity to undo the institution at large. And 01:10:00they're charge is to keep the institution running smoothly. I am not connected enough to the administration at North Buncombe to know whether or not they would in their hearts think to do the right thing, or just choose to not, it's hard to say.

Dan Coleman: But at least when I look at the greater community, and I look at where I see things today versus where they were 15 years ago, to me, I feel more optimistic for queer youth than I would've felt for them when I was in that position at that same point in time. And so, it's interesting to kind of look at this dichotomy and be able to point to and see progress, and say, "I can see it's better for youth in these types of ways." But then still 01:11:00wish that there was so much that wasn't still happening. You know, in this instance for the individual at North Buncombe ...

Dan Coleman: And I've started to reach out to people at TransMission and whatnot because I'd like to be able to use a voice of agency to be a part of this. To be able to bring my own experience to the table, and you know, hopefully, help in that regard. I'm still working on that process to find out what that looks like, and the ways in which I can be of help, but it is saddening to see that something like this has created so much of an outcry, despite feeling like so much progress has been made.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: It kind of lingers like this specter of, you know, no matter how much progress it feels like we've made moving forward, that there's still just kind of this lingering shadow that's hard to get out from under.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: And I'm hopeful that we'll continue to move the issue forward to a point that we can get away from that. But then, I also wonder, you know, leveraging that against the greater culture of the area, what the challenges are going to be that we have to meet to get there.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah. And that leads to another question that I had, and I think this is one of the questions we want to make sure that all of our [inaudible 01:12:53] get a chance to answer, and that is what the resource needs in the area are. You've talked a lot about organizations that have been 01:13:00helpful to you, like PFLAG, and institutions like Outspoken. But is there anything specific you think the area needs that's still lacking, that could lend support to LGBTQ folks in the area?

Dan Coleman: Now, there's been a lot of movement that has happened in the years since I became an adult. I know Youth Outright is doing a lot of really great work. But I feel like, especially for our area, that the more we can create resources, and really just community spaces for queer youth, especially, the better we will be able to serve the community. My feeling here was that life can be really great for you as a queer adult. When you are no longer under the pressure of expectations, and you can just be an adult and live your 01:14:00life, and yes, you can be authentic, and be able to do that in ways that you can still be yourself and live a fulfilled life.

Dan Coleman: But I'd still very much like to see us improve upon the ways that we can serve queer youth in the community. To be able to let them know, you're not alone, you have resources, you have people you can come to, you have adults that you can go to. And not even so much in terms of the culture of sort of activism, but even just in the culture of existence. There are plenty of queer spaces for adults. We have all kinds of places that queer adults gather and do things. But it seems like there is a lack of spaces where queer youth can get together. And of course, in the modern age, we 01:15:00have the internet, and it's ways to be able to supplant that, but I think that comes with its own set of issues, and problems, and threats to the community that it can create through cyber-bullying and things of that nature.

Dan Coleman: But I think it's also an issue of ... Sure you might be able to get on the phone and be in Facebook messaging with somebody who can be like, "I'm here for you, you can talk to me." But that doesn't substitute being able to sit face to face with somebody and have a person who can be there to say, "I've been through this, I know how hard it is, I'm here to support you, I'm here to do what I can for you. You can come to me, you can talk to me." And I know that when I was a queer youth, I always felt like those people were there and I was fortunate enough when circumstance brought me to them.

Dan Coleman: But I would love to see that be a more active process, 01:16:00where there can be community organization that is putting itself out there to make it known, we are creating a community space for queer youth where you can come be yourself without fear of judgment, find people to connect with, find resources to connect with, to be able to be there to support queer youth that may be struggling with homelessness because they are being kicked out of the house because there's just too much divide in the family for it to be safe for them. Because I was fortunate enough, that I had enough love, and support, and care in my immediate community, through my family, through my friends, that I overcame those challenges.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: But I know, both through just my own observation, and 01:17:00through conversations I've had with others, that I'm lucky in that regard, and that for every one of me out there in the community, there are dozens more who it's 100% the opposite. They are being thrown out on the street, left with nothing, being put in situations where they might be forced to make dangerous risky decisions for survival.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: And I'd really love to see us as a community come together and create a stronger, more vibrant resource network, to make sure that those youth know they have a place to go to. That when left to the decision of, "Do I engage in this risky behavior because I have to do something to survive? Or I could reach out to this organization, this community, and find 01:18:00the support I need to not have to make those decisions." That's where I'd really like to see our community focus its energies. I feel like ... I mean, I don't want to seem to presumptuous in saying this, but I feel like as far as an adult community that can be fully realized, we've kind of reached that pinnacle at this point.

Dan Coleman: Now we need to be thinking about what we do to make sure that our future generations get there too. And that they do not somewhere along the way, end up having to walk down a dangerous path because circumstances in their life have driven them to where they have no other choice, because no other set of resources or community exists for them. We, as an adult queer community here, I'm not saying we don't still have our own challenges, but I feel like by and large, we've carved out our place, and we are doing well for the 01:19:00most part. Especially for gender nonconforming youth, is where I get especially concerned. Because I feel like that has become kind of an element of queer culture that is not modern.

Dan Coleman: Transgender individuals have existed since long before we may have ever wanted to recognize them. But I feel like that has kind of been the evolution in the process for the queer community now, because to me it seems like there are lesser and lesser spaces where being gay, or lesbian, or even bisexual, pansexual, you know, whatever it may be, is not necessarily considered to be as taboo. But issues of gender, I feel like especially right 01:20:00now, are very difficult. And I will confess, I even had to go through kind of my own evolution on that process. I met my first transgender individual when I was 16, she was part of PFLAG, and I have to admit, I didn't fully get it. I didn't understand. And I think that kind of comes back again to me, fortunately enough for myself being very comfortable and accepting in my male identity, I didn't know what it felt like to have your emotional and psychological identity not match your physical composition.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: So I didn't understand it fully. To me, it seemed kind of strange and nonsensical. And I had to eventually kind of learn and evolve to a point where I could get that, you know, and understand there's a difference ... Kind of the very simplistic metaphor that I used when helping my 01:21:00father evolve in this process, because for every bit as much as he had a hard time with accepting me as gay, the whole idea of transgender-ism he was just way out in left field on.

Dan Coleman: And so, I told him, I was like, "Dad, think about it like this. You've got two parts that makeup you. You've got the wiring of your brain, and your personality, and who you are, and you have the plumbing of your biology." I was like, "I'm going to use a reference that works for you, you work in construction. With a transgender individual, all we're saying is that the wiring doesn't match the plumbing. We need plumbing to match the wiring." And he was like, "Oh. Oh, that makes perfect sense." And it was so funny to watch him just kind of be like, "Oh, well when you put it in a metaphor that I can digest, I totally get that."

Dan Coleman: So seeing that, even as myself, a queer individual, having to evolve to a point where I could better accept other members of my 01:22:00community, that is an area where I really see a lot of concern. And I mean, especially with everything we've seen here in the state with the ridiculous bathroom bill, and all of that nonsense, we have this instance now with the student at North Buncombe facing discrimination over something as simple as needing to use the restroom.

Dan Coleman: And I worry, especially for them, and I feel like that is going to be kind of the modern challenge for our community. I feel like as a whole, this area is pretty well accepting when it comes to issues of sexuality. I think issues of gender are a very different thing, and I think that's where evolution is going to need to happen. And again, the more that we can 01:23:00do to be prepared to have a safe landing place for young queer youth that are establishing gender identity is going to be important because the last thing I would want to see would be a situation where we kind of get so wrapped up in the privilege of the work that we've done, that we lose sight of the work that's left to do.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: And unfortunately, I kind of see that in the great ... Not necessarily here, but in the greater community in general. And I still find situations where I have to kind of check gay friends of mine. When I hear them say things, I'm like, "Buddy, that's kind of trans-phobic, I don't know if you realize it. And you need to understand that these individuals are very much a member of our community as much as we are and that we owe to them, 01:24:00our culture, our history." I've recently started watching POSE, which has been an incredible opportunity for me because it talks about a part of the burgeoning of drag culture that I never knew.

Dan Coleman: I didn't even know drag culture existed until the mid 90s, early 2000s, by which point we had kind of moved on from that particular element of the history, and it really opened my eyes to the ways in which gender-nonconforming individuals really paved a lot of the way for us to get to where we're at now. And so, I get very frustrated when I find members of the same queer community kind of implicitly, or even explicitly casting doubt on these people that are ... These are our brothers and sisters, our members of the same community. We owe where we're at to them as much as we do to the 01:25:00work we've done.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: So I have really tried to position that part of the activism process as front and center in the work that I want to try to do. And in the ways that I really, as an educator, try to be sensitive and open and aware. I default anymore, student comes into my room, first thing I say, what's your name, what's your pronouns?

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: Because I want to accept you as you. I want to address you as you. And I tell people all the time, I'm like, "Listen, I might mess up every now and again, I will do my best not to dead-name you, I will do my best not to mis-gender you with pronouns, I might make a mistake, please know it's not intentional."

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: I grew up for the better part of my life never even 01:26:00knowing that transgender-ism was a thing.

Patrick Bahls: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Coleman: Never even knowing of the idea that somebody was not just male or female. I am doing my own work to try to deprogram myself, but it is a process. So that's, at least in my immediate sphere of influence, what I can do. And then, beyond that, I really try to use my opportunity to push for greater accountability. Not just outside the LGBTQ community, but also inside the LGBTQ community, for the ways in which we, whether knowingly or unknowingly, may be retreating into positions of privilege, based on gender, based on race, based on whatever, where we are missing for the trees in the work that we're doing.

Dan Coleman: Because we feel like we've arrived, and we've got what we want as cis-gendered white gay men, work's done. We've arrived. No, not by a 01:27:00long shot. We have a lot more people in our community to be fighting for. So I always try and, everything that that I do, whether it's my work or work with others, to keep that front and center idea that it's not just about making sure that you get to live the comfortable life that you want to live, but that everybody who has supported, and guided you, and helped you arrive to this point, gets to do the same. Otherwise, we're all just a bunch of phonies.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah.

Dan Coleman: You know, we've all just gotten in this fight for our own self-interest and now we're just going to tap out because we got what we wanted? If that were the case, we wouldn't be where we're at now. You know, we owe our progress to people that are not necessarily the same as us, so we 01:28:00can't allow ourselves to get trapped in this idea of, "Well, I've made it to the place I want to be, so I'm good. I can stop the work now."

Patrick Bahls: I don't know where to go off that. And we've been at this for 90 minutes. And I think that's a good place to leave it now.

Dan Coleman: Awesome.

Patrick Bahls: Perhaps if there's an opportunity for a second interview, if there's more you want to include.

Dan Coleman: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. If there's any need for a follow-up, you know, if somebody happens to listen and further questions arise, I'm happy to come back.

Patrick Bahls: Yeah. Three questions I had just real quick, and these are just information, I just want to make sure I get the spelling right. Mr. Hamlin? H-A-M ...

Dan Coleman: H-A-M-L-I-N.

Patrick Bahls: L-I-N.

Dan Coleman: And it's Wayne Hamlin. I believe he is still currently teaching at TC Roberson.

Patrick Bahls: And we may ... One of the ways that we're finding 01:29:00folks to take part in this is by snowballing and reaching out, so do you think he might be someone that would be interested in taking part?

Dan Coleman: Probably so. Probably so. And like myself, he would be a really interesting person to interview because he also grew up in this area.

Patrick Bahls: Okay.

Dan Coleman: And he would have a very unique perspective because he is of a generation before me. So he really grew up during a lot of the cultural friction.

Patrick Bahls: Okay.

Dan Coleman: And would probably have some great insights to provide.

Patrick Bahls: Okay, we might reach out to him. And then, you mentioned, I think, in passing you mentioned that probably the advisor of your theater in high school? You mentioned her name I think, Miss something or other?

Dan Coleman: Oh.

Patrick Bahls: I want to make sure we get that name spelled right. Maybe it wasn't her that you mentioned.

Dan Coleman: So really it was theater and chorus in particular. Our theater teacher was Ricky Webb.

Patrick Bahls: I don't think that was the name you said.

Dan Coleman: And then our chorus teacher, well she was then Genie 01:30:00Pegg, now Genie Grame because she's gotten remarried.

Patrick Bahls: I don't think that was it either. There was a Z in it I think.

Dan Coleman: Let me think.

Patrick Bahls: I could be wrong. It was just a name you mentioned in passing, I wanted to make sure we spelled it right.

Dan Coleman: Shoot.

Patrick Bahls: In reference to your time in the theater, but I can't ... Yeah. If when we hit it in the transcript we can't ...

Dan Coleman: Yeah, I'm struggling to remember, unfortunately. I ended up just kind of going off on so many tangents.

Patrick Bahls: No worries, no worries. It was funny, at several points I had questions, and you would just naturally circle back around and answer the question I was going to [crosstalk 01:30:40], so I'm checking off here. And the other thing, I should've asked at the onset, if you don't mind putting on the record your birth date?

Dan Coleman: Yes, it's July 12th, 1987.

Patrick Bahls: And that'll be in the transcript. It should be at the beginning, but it'll be here at the end.

Dan Coleman: Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Bahls: Okay. Great, so I'm going to go ahead and end recording.

Dan Coleman: Cool. This is so awesome, I love it!

Patrick Bahls: Thank you so much for ...

Dan Coleman: No, thank you for thinking of me.

This transcript was exported on Sep 23, 2019 - view latest version here.

Dan Coleman 9-20-2019 (Completed 09/22/19)

Transcript by Rev.com

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