Margaret Small: Okay. These are both rolling. Okay. That's not too loud.
Margaret Small: Thank you for sharing your time and the gift of your stories.
I've set side an hour and a half for our interview, but at any point we can take
a break or end the interview. I'm Margaret Small and I'm working with Blue Ridge
Pride and Amanda Wray to record oral histories from elders and members of the
LGBTQ community. With your permission, all stories will be archived with special
collections at UNC Asheville and available as audio and typed transcript files.
I have a oral release form for you to sign. There are two versions. One is with
restrictions, which you can just look at what that is on the back. The other is
just a deed of gifts. If you can have without restrictions or with restrictions.
Beth Heinberg: All right. Someone's going to transcribe it?
Margaret Small: Yeah. Then, before they do anything with it, they'll show you
the ... send you the transcription. You can make any changes. You can indicate
anything that you want deleted.
Beth Heinberg: Oh. Nice.
Margaret Small: Which do you want?
Beth Heinberg: Unrestricted.
Margaret Small: Okay. This is unrestricted. If you could sign both of them and
then you keep one and then I give one to Amanda. Okay. Also, we have this ... I
only got this this morning so I didn't have it before. You guys can fill these
out whenever you want. Then you can just give them to me and I'll just give them
to Amanda. They're just basically information ... background information that
wouldn't be in an interview.
Beth Heinberg: Okay.
Margaret Small: Okay.
Beth Heinberg: Okay.
Margaret Small: Great. You keep one.
Beth Heinberg: Are you going to sign it first?
Margaret Small: Oh yeah. Good thing. Can you tell you're my first one?
Beth Heinberg: This? Do we recycle it-
Margaret Small: No. I'll just keep it for another time.
Beth Heinberg: Okay. La la la. La la la. La la la la la la. Are they going to
Margaret Small: I doubt it.
Beth Heinberg: Thanks for transcribing this, whoever you are.
Margaret Small: Whoever you are. She has these young gay people-
Beth Heinberg: Cool.
Margaret Small: Various genders, that are either grad students or seniors at
Beth Heinberg: I hope they-
Margaret Small: Teaching-
Beth Heinberg: Have that little thing with the pedal-
Margaret Small: Assistants.
Beth Heinberg: That stops it.
Margaret Small: I don't know how it does, but they seem to be pretty together.
Beth Heinberg: They know what to do.
Margaret Small: Okay.
Beth Heinberg: [crosstalk 00:03:22].
Margaret Small: I know. It's too much.
Beth Heinberg: I'll tell you.
Margaret Small: Okay. [inaudible 00:03:30]. Okay. Today is November-
Beth Heinberg: 18th.
Margaret Small: 18th, 2019. I'm Margaret Small and I am talking with ...
Beth Heinberg: Beth Heinberg.
Margaret Small: Who was born ...
Beth Heinberg: August 4th, 1967.
Margaret Small: Where?
Beth Heinberg: Louisiana, USA.
Margaret Small: Oh. How wonderful. Okay. Cool. There we go. Now, okay. How do
you describe yourself in terms of pronoun use and identity?
Beth Heinberg: [inaudible 00:04:04], bisexual, long term relationship. Yeah.
Margaret Small: When did you come to us in North Carolina?
Beth Heinberg: 2004.
Margaret Small: What brought you here?
Beth Heinberg: Actually, I'm going to say 2005. Nancy and I were thinking about
retiring here. My sister already lived here with our two nephews. We saw this
house for sale by owner and we loved it, especially the tree house in the back.
Margaret Small: Oh how cool.
Beth Heinberg: We somehow got it. We thought we were going to rent it out until
we were ready to retire, but then we loved it so much we decided to think about
finding a way to move here earlier than retirement. We saw this job at a private
school and I interviewed and got the job and quit my job. We moved here. This
00:05:00was all pretty hasty-
Margaret Small: Yes.
Beth Heinberg: After my father's death, my mother lived in Wilmington at the
time. Nancy had been pestering me for children, which I did not want. We thought
moving here we could enjoy our grand ... our grandchildren ... our nephews while
they were three and six and that'd be better than having our own children. We
could be here to support my mom after my dad's death and all that.
Margaret Small: Great.
Beth Heinberg: It's a hoot. From Boston.
Margaret Small: Can you describe the changes you've seen in the years you've
been here, both positive and negative?
Beth Heinberg: Wow. Well, when we moved here, this neighborhood, West Asheville,
was very quiet and seemed like it was barely inhabited. We'd walk, go for a
00:06:00walk, and not see a person. It just felt kind of like we had moved to the
country and in the past 15 years it's turned into Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
There's so many more people here and so much more night life just down the block
from us. We kind of love that, but it's really confusing and it's also kind of
hard to park. It's super hard to go downtown and know that you can park. Public
transportation needs a lot of work. We're used to hopping on the T in Boston and
driving everywhere has really been hard to get used to. It does feel a lot more
vibrant than when we moved here.
Margaret Small: Do you think there's anything negative about the changes except
Beth Heinberg: I mean, it's really hard for people who don't have housing they
00:07:00can afford. That's the main thing. People I hang out with, progressive folks,
are very concerned that it's not an easy place to be a black or brown person,
not an easy place to be in the service industry if you want to live anywhere
near where you're working. Then if you go right outside Asheville you're going
to encounter a lot of racism, homophobia, transphobia, and so it's just a
dangerous, difficult place to live because it's so expensive.
Margaret Small: Talk a little bit about your life in Boston before you came here.
Beth Heinberg: When I was in Boston, I was totally out to all my students and
00:08:00friends and everybody I knew. There was just no closet and huge, huge queer,
radical community. Then moving here and starting to teach middle school at a
private school here in the Bible belt was difficult. I was encouraged not to be
too out about my family configuration to my students. It was really challenging
when I would run into people from school with Nancy in public. It was just like,
"Whoa." Going right back into the closet, not really wanting to. That wasn't
what I expected when I took the job. I was kind of surprised about that. There
were a lot of very conservative families at that school, and the thing was that
Nancy and I got married in '04 in Cambridge, Mass and then moving here we were
suddenly only engaged. That was kind of a shitty feeling. We were fighting for
00:09:00marriage equality here. I don't know. It was just definitely a step backwards in
a lot of ways with our human rights.
Margaret Small: Since you've come here, what groups have you worked with or
consider to be an asset to the LGBTQ community?
Beth Heinberg: Let me think. When we first moved here, we started getting
involved in getting started ... getting Youth OutRight started. It was a lot, a
lot of meetings. There was a lot of fear around opening the first support group
for queer kids. A lot of people were very afraid of violence and bad reactions
from the families of these kids we were hoping to serve. There was some
00:10:00important legal stuff to sort out, but both Nancy and I felt like we didn't
understand why it was taking so long to open, given how important this service
would be for these queer kids who weren't being [inaudible 00:10:20] by
anything. There was a [inaudible 00:10:22] chapter, but there was no social
support group for that population at the time. We felt very urgent about opening
it sooner. We had some conflict with other board members at the time. We did
open probably a year after we started being involved. We were both facilitators
of the group. Nancy was volunteer coordinator. We were super, super active for
quite a while in Youth OutRight. We felt good about that work.
Margaret Small: How did the kids react?
Beth Heinberg: Oh, so-
Margaret Small: Like when it first opened?
Beth Heinberg: It was so amazing. We had a lot of help from Time Out Youth
Charlotte. They came and gave us a lot of their information and training
00:11:00materials. That was great. It's just so incredible to see the changes in these
kids just from having this ... I think it was like even ... was it once a month?
I can't even remember if it was once a month or once a week, but we did a lot of
facilitation. We just kept seeing the membership grow and grow. It was so
bittersweet to see that people would come from two hours away to these meetings.
Families were nothing but supportive. They knew their kids needed this. It was
just really great. It was all different kinds of kids, all different ages. Yeah.
It was a beautiful thing.
Margaret Small: Any other groups?
Beth Heinberg: Then we got involved with Girls Rock Asheville. Actually, that
00:12:00probably overlapped. Girls Rock Asheville is also something that serves a lot of
queer and trans kids. They get together and form a band and learn an instrument,
write a song in one week and then they perform it at the super hip rock club in
town at the end of the week. It's a lot of work all year round just to get this
camp happening for one week. It's a beautiful, amazing, affirming thing. For
some kids, it's the only time they do get to use the pronouns they want to use
and be who they want to be. A lot of them are bullied in school maybe for being
a little bit outside the gender or sexual orientation norm. The camp also has a
lot of ... it has a real social justice agenda. There are lots of workshops:
anti-racism, gender and sexuality, activism, self-defense, zine making. It's a
00:13:00really beautiful thing and it ... I ... it really changes lives. It's such a
great feeling to be there. There's so much laughing and crying and beautiful art
Margaret Small: Do you stay in touch with the campers after the summer that they come?
Beth Heinberg: Yeah, a lot of time. There are so many that want to return so
that's a good sign that we're doing something right. It's hard because there's
... we're limited to the money we get and the volunteers we get as to how many
cameras we can serve. We all wish that we could increase the enrollment, but
it's hard to find people who can give up a week. Definitely hard to find people
who aren't financially comfortable. A lot of people in the service industry take
their vacation days to be able to come to cam. Recently we've been giving
00:14:00stipends because we figured out that was a way to diversify our volunteer base
outside of what had been sort of mostly white, lots of retirees helping us run
camp. We're always, always working to be ... being better.
Margaret Small: Do you feel like in the years that you've been here that the
community, the LGBTQ community, encourages activism or still afraid?
Beth Heinberg: Oh, well I guess I should point out that going to pride has been
a huge difference since '05. When we first went to our first pride here it was
in the parking lot of Earth Fare Westgate. I'm sure it was probably more than
100 people but that's sort of what it looked like. It was so depressing after
being at Boston Pride. It was just like, "Where have we moved? What have we
00:15:00done?" Everyone just seemed so nervous to be there. Ugh. Now it's way downtown.
It's thickly corporately sponsored, which I don't always think is an awesome
thing, but it's pretty festive, pretty well attended. I'm always running into
former students there.
Margaret Small: Cool.
Beth Heinberg: It's magical.
Margaret Small: What about your support network here? How was it to create a
community, a sense of family, with the new people you had come to know?
Beth Heinberg: Yeah. I'm trying to think how we first made friends here. Some
through our sister, my sister, Nancy's sister-in-law, Kim. Some through Youth
OutRight. Some from school. I started with some other people the diversity
faculty group at the private school where I was working. That was a good source
00:16:00of good friends. Then, we started going to events held by the meetup, the
Lesbian's Social Club started by [Gwyn Croft 00:16:24] and that was a real bump
in our social life. We just met hundreds and hundreds of-
Margaret Small: Say a little bit about Gwyn and-
Beth Heinberg: Awesome women.
Margaret Small: That group.
Beth Heinberg: I guess it's just the meetup. It's for lesbians. Anyone can host
an event. There's events at bars, but also sporty things and dances. Yeah. The
dance is sponsored by Lesbians in the Mountains. They've also been really fun
down at Scandals. I think that's who sponsors those dancers, LIM. Yeah. We've
met a lot of really good friends through that group.
Margaret Small: Has your experience brought you in contact with a multiracial or
multi-class selection of people or does it mostly reflect what you said about
the original people in your Girls Rock?
Beth Heinberg: Well, there were a bunch of people who were noticing that the
meetups were kind of white. They started this ... hosting this monthly diversity
alliance to try to combat that and also work on fighting white supremacy, but
also just social and support for women who wanted to party with people who
weren't all white. That was a really strong group for many years. It sort of
evolved into some other interest groups at this point. One of them is my
00:18:00beautiful anti-racist book group that I'm doing with you, Margaret Small.
Margaret Small: A combination of two things, like how you felt when you first
came out and a little bit about your own personal history and then how you think
it's similar or changed today to come out.
Beth Heinberg: Oh, just what it's like to be a queer person in this world?
Margaret Small: Yeah, but how was it-
Beth Heinberg: Or when I was a kid-
Margaret Small: When you came out? Yeah, and how you contrast and compare that
Beth Heinberg: Ah, memories. Well, I guess it all started when I was a kid and I
started having these beautiful dreams about this woman named Adele. She was just
this incredible figure I looked up to. I think I got the name from Adele Davis,
the nutritionist, Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit.
Margaret Small: Yeah.
Beth Heinberg: Thought that was such a beautiful name. I started dreaming about
00:19:00this woman, Adele. Then I was definitely always thinking about girls and women,
but I was reading these British school ... boarding school stories. I think they
were written in the 40s and 50s, these [Ina Gliten 00:19:21] books. They would
talk about girls having crushes on other girls, around their female teachers,
but they would always frame it as it was just immaturity and they would kind of
gently mock those girls who had those patches or crushes. That was sort of my
thought about lesbianism as I was growing up. I was like, "Okay. Well, it's
common but it's just an immature thing." Freud probably would agree. I was
acknowledging it, but also thinking, "Well, as I mature I'll be more focused on
boys." Then for a while I was more focused on boys and kind of scared of girls,
scared to hang out with them. I felt just sort of ill at ease with them and I
00:20:00felt more comfortable with boys.
Beth Heinberg: In college, for the first couple of years, I was pretty focused
on dating men, but still thinking about women and noticing and having crushes on
women. Then, halfway through college, I started to sort of try out the label
lesbian and it started to feel kind of right. I guess it was late college when I
started having relationships with women. I moved to Boston and I was noticing a
lot of very handsome men on the T. I was thinking, "Well, maybe I'll reinvent
myself now and I'll be straight." I had a couple of dates and they were just
gross. I'm sorry to all my old boyfriends, but there was just something way too
hard about every single relationship with a man, the translation, the power
00:21:00imbalance. It just felt so right. As a feminist, it just felt so much more right
and maybe a shortcut to intimacy to be with women.
Beth Heinberg: Then I fell in with these radical lesbian separatists. I was
living in a separatist house in Jamaica Plain. It was just so ... such an
exciting time of life. I felt like I was really living my truth. It was all
Alison Bechdel talks about in Dykes to Watch Out For, which I was reading avidly
at the time. This was in the late 80s, early 90s. It just felt like personal,
political all wrapped up together. It just felt so right. It just was what I
needed so badly, separate from men and not have to do all that translating and
persuading and arguing. I just wanted to skip that step and move on, change the
world. Then I had a lot of relationships with women.
Beth Heinberg: Then I was playing a lot of music. I tried out for this band that
I was a fan of, Adult Children of Heterosexuals. It was a big queer cabaret
band. I went to my audition for ... to be their piano player. I saw this drummer
and she was so mean looking. I just loved her look. She just scowled at me over
the drum set and she said, "I know you're listening." She said, "Can you
commit?" Because they had just gone through many keyboard players and, of
course, she went to the band.
Margaret Small: Yes.
Beth Heinberg: I was like, "Yes I can." I started playing with them. We went to
the March on Washington. This must've been '93. I think we were playing on the
same stage as Ellen DeGeneres, so it was so early in her career that she wasn't
00:23:00in the closet yet. That's weird. I started dating the bass player in the band,
who was a bisexual man. We felt like we had to keep our relationship secret
because it was a gay band and thought they would look down on us. That was a
very strange moment of feeling marginalized by doing something heterosexual. I
just started to feel like being at pride, where it would be acceptable to my
friends in this band if I were with a girl but not with him because bisexuals
were just so trashed all the time. Lesbian separatists saw us as traitors.
Straight people saw us as wishy washy or slutty. It was just kind of hard to
come out as bi in general.
Beth Heinberg: I just felt like it would be weak or lazy for me not to try to
stick with this relationship and not to try to work on coming out, but he didn't
want to come out. I couldn't out him. We really cared about this band. It was so
stupid when I look back on it, but ... so Nancy was hitting on me at this
Washington thing. I couldn't say, "Well, no. I'm dating this man in our band
who's your friend too." I was just like, "Okay." I kind of hooked up with her
and she actually guessed. She could sense that I was being a little reluctant.
She said, "What? Well, you're not dating him are you?" She named that person and
I was like, "Oh my God. Who is this psychic drummer in this psychic friends
network?" I did admit that I was seeing him and then she was furious and quit
Beth Heinberg: We had this big processing session with the band. They were all
really hurt that we hadn't trusted them enough to tell them. It was a really
crazy time. Then I was dating her and him for several months, so lots of crying
and fighting and trying to be polyamorous but I was discovering that I wasn't
really able to be ... I was only 25. I wasn't really able to be truthful enough
and confrontational enough and stand up for my own need for space enough to make
it work. He wanted to make it work. She did not want to make it work. I started
doing self-sabotaging things like just leaving ... I left a message on my
00:26:00outgoing voicemail about I was at his house and just little weird mistakes like,
"Are you trying to get caught?" Like to force confrontations. It was a really
crazy time of lots of learning, but not sustainable.
Beth Heinberg: That was what kind of turned me off my youthful, idealistic idea
that you could be polyamorous ... or not ... I guess I decided that it could
possibly work but it was way harder than I thought and all the people involved
would have to be onboard more. I also noticed that I wanted to just kind of pour
my energy into one person. I decided to try to make a go of it with Nancy. It's
26 years later. Seems to be working out pretty well. Whew.
Margaret Small: Yeah.
Beth Heinberg: That's the story of that.
Margaret Small: Totally cool. One thing, if we look across the years of your
life, you've talked a little bit about the fears of being stigmatized in the
band for being bi, but how do you look at how the idea of stigma versus
inclusion, how's that affected you and how's that changed or stayed the same?
Beth Heinberg: I don't know. I think there's more education around bisexuality.
I'm sure there's still plenty of people who have those same old beliefs about
bisexuals, just promiscuous or half-closeted or indecisive. There is, in our
00:28:00culture, straight privilege. If I were in a long term relationship with a man, I
would be benefiting from that, for sure. I think there's been so much awesome
scholarly writing and people speaking their truth that I think it's a lot more
accepted now, bisexuality. I hope. It also confuses people when you're in a long
term with one certain human being. It's like, "Well, are you still bisexual?"
I'm sure plenty of people just say, "Well, now I'm a lesbian because I'm in this
relationship," but I still feel like it's important to own that label, if only
to help educate people. For a while, I was ... I would make a big deal out of
being bi when I was talking to gay people. Then I would make a bigger deal about
00:29:00being gay when I was talking to straight people. I would be more likely to
identify as a lesbian in a group of straight women.
Margaret Small: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Beth Heinberg: Yeah.
Margaret Small: Did any of that make you feel excluded, or how did people react?
Beth Heinberg: I don't know. I've had a lot of therapists over the years. I
remember when I was in Boston I was trying to get a lesbian feminist therapist.
I called my HMO and I said, "I want a lesbian feminist therapist, please."
Thinking, "Okay, well, just go through your files of lesbian feminist therapists
and get me one." They were like, "Well, we don't ask them that." It was a little
hard to find that but I did. I successfully did. Then moving here, I had a
00:30:00straight woman who I felt like was super judge-y. It might have just been my
projection, but she was super dressy. I felt like I was kind of having to
translate my queer life to her too much. Yeah. Being in a social group with a
bunch of people who are not exactly like me orientation-wise is fine, but having
a therapist who doesn't get me is not so fine. In the former, I just feel like
I'm an awesome activist and I'm just myself and they can like me or lump me, but
yeah. I hope that answers the question.
Margaret Small: Were you able to find a therapist in this community who was more
knowledgeable about your-
Beth Heinberg: Yeah.
Margaret Small: Reality.
Beth Heinberg: Yeah. Totally. You want a name?
Margaret Small: Maybe later. What-
Beth Heinberg: My best therapist that I've had here was someone who has since
passed away who was really able to integrate thinking about race stuff and
sexual orientation stuff-
Margaret Small: Cool.
Beth Heinberg: And passing. She would often bring up and point out to me in
really powerful ways how similar it is to be able to pass as white versus
passing as light enough skin not to have people hate you just for how you're
looking. I really enjoyed working with her and thinking about those things with
her. They've changed my perspective a bit.
Margaret Small: What do you think your generation has done that will be helpful
to future generations of LGBTQ people?
Beth Heinberg: Wow. I think coming out is the main thing, but also political
actions. I was involved with ACT UP in Boston, Queer Nation, just so much work
that was done around AIDS and is still being done by partners on the WinCap
board. I don't know if it's specifically my generation, but all the people who
are alive right now there was just so much work done on law, on legislation. I
wasn't really so excited about the marriage equality fight at first because it
seemed like assimilationist and caving and not very queer when I was thinking we
00:33:00need to abolish marriage, not get it for everybody, but my thinking around that
has really changed, especially when I think about families with kids and
hospital visitation and that film, If These Walls Could Talk was just a shocking
... if you haven't thought too much about what happens if the partner dies with
no rights and the family tries to take away their home and stuff like that.
Margaret Small: Really. Totally.
Beth Heinberg: Artists and activists have made some pretty fast changes in the
past few years. The trans community has come a long way and has a long way to
go, but it's pretty amazing that so many people who had not even thought about
trans people except maybe as a joke are now really seriously having their
Margaret Small: Well, that also just brings up the issue of race and how you
00:34:00think in Asheville it's different to be queer and of a different race than the
Beth Heinberg: Super hard. We had a lesbian ... a white lesbian police chief. I
thought, "Well, that's going to be wonderful. She's going to change things for
everybody." I don't know much about her, but I know she made one very bad
decision in a race ... racial incident. That was very, very disappointing. When
we first moved here, our good friend [Alissa Cumba Zuena 00:34:48] was telling
us that she finally had to shave her head because she was getting so many
traffic stops having locks. Just driving with a certain kind of hair and she was
00:35:00getting stopped all the time. That's just one teeny little aspect of living in
Asheville with black skin and hair.
Margaret Small: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Beth Heinberg: She was fired from a job I believe because of the way she was ...
the way she spoke. Yeah. It's very hard. [inaudible 00:35:33].
Margaret Small: Does she still live here or-
Beth Heinberg: She died.
Margaret Small: Oh. She died.
Beth Heinberg: She moved to Atlanta before dying, but yeah. She couldn't sustain
Margaret Small: Do you think that's true for many people-
Beth Heinberg: Yeah I do.
Margaret Small: Of color.
Beth Heinberg: Yeah. Hard to get good work. Hard to find friends. Hard to find
housing unless you're wealthy.
Margaret Small: Is there much of a bar scene nowadays that ... of gay bars in Asheville?
Beth Heinberg: I know of one has closed. I'm not the biggest bar fly on earth,
but I do like to go dancing or sometimes play music in bars with my band. I
remember in the 80s, 90s it seemed like lots of lesbians were in recovery. That
was hurting the bar scene, but good for peoples' health and sober dances were a
thing for a while. There might be sober dances here but I don't know about them.
I don't know. It's definitely not like when I was coming out, but that was the
00:37:00only place I knew to meet people at the time.
Margaret Small: How do you think from your ongoing communication with people
across the spectrum in Asheville what ... how do you think most people meet
other lesbians coming out now in Asheville? What do you think it's like to come
out in a city where there's not a lot of public access?
Beth Heinberg: Yeah. I don't know, depends on the age you come out. If you're
young it could be with OutRight. Older lesbian meetup I think is a really great
way to get hooked in. If you're super sporty, there's so many hiking groups and
things like that, lots of camping groups. Nancy and I have recently being brave
enough to go camping with lots of much handier lesbians than ourselves. I just
called myself a lesbian.
Margaret Small: Well, that's very cool that you're expanding into new areas of ...
Beth Heinberg: Activities.
Margaret Small: Activities. Is there anything else we haven't talked about that
you think is important for people who look back on these years in Asheville,
like 20 years from now, to think about western North Carolina and the identity
and role of lesbians and gay people?
Beth Heinberg: Well, I want to give a shout out to [Va 00:38:36] and [Gene
00:38:37] who have this website A Sheville that's been a good resource for a lot
of people. Though I want to definitely caution people who think they can move
here from San Francisco or New York City and be as out as they were there. It's
just not quite as safe. I have to say there's still plenty of gay bashing,
00:39:00especially the further you go outside of the city.
Margaret Small: What about for trans people? Nationally, there's been so many
murders of African American trans people.
Beth Heinberg: Internationally.
Margaret Small: And internationally as well. Asheville has that reputation of
being gay friendly, but I just wonder if ... what you think about when people
look back on this age, what narrative do you think will dominate?
Beth Heinberg: Huh. Interesting. I have a couple of friends who moved here from
California. One of them is a trans woman and the minute they moved here that
shitty bathroom bill got passed. Suddenly my friend didn't feel like she could
leave the house because she could use the bathroom safely. It was horrible. It
was really awful and shocking for them and a lot of other people.
Margaret Small: Do you think that has changed?
Beth Heinberg: It's a crisis. My friend is still kind of house-bound even though
there are a lot more ... we were in a campaign of getting businesses to hang up
signs if they had non-gendered bathrooms. How do you bounce back from something
like that? That was only a couple years ago.
Margaret Small: Right. Right. Well, do you think people really remember that and
think about it? Is it part of their narrative about Asheville?
Beth Heinberg: I think there are plenty of people who don't look very kindly on
North Carolina since that from other states. I know we have friends who don't
really want to visit us here. There's a lot of work to be done. That meowing was
00:41:00our cat Joanie Mitchell Ash-Heinberg. We hyphenated.
Margaret Small: Anything else that you want to share for ... and I wanted to
also say that if you have any artifacts, they are also collecting artifacts. If
you have papers or notes or posters or artifacts from any of the activities that you-
Beth Heinberg: Should it be from western North Carolina?
Margaret Small: Well, that's mostly what they're collecting.
Beth Heinberg: Okay.
Margaret Small: I'm sure there's national efforts.
Beth Heinberg: Because we have a lot of super cool flyers from Adult Children
with Heterosexuals and Q-Set, this band we did in Boston that was ... we tried
to do covers of only queer artists. That was really fun. We did a Barry Manilow
song before he even came out. Sorry, Barry. People need a little push.
Margaret Small: Well, thank you very much.
Beth Heinberg: Thank you.
Margaret Small: Let's see. Now, how do we ...